Proposition 8

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Rat-morningstar
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Re: Proposition 8

Post by Rat-morningstar » Wed May 27, 2009 1:33 am

peepoo are afraid of everyone that's not like them. gay guys are stll pretty new. give them some time to get used to gays, the next generation won't be as hating
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Re: Proposition 8

Post by Chief Cheese » Wed May 27, 2009 2:25 am

. . . gay guys are new? what?
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Re: Proposition 8

Post by stabbyclaus » Wed May 27, 2009 3:39 am

nothing new about being gay, people are just misunderstanding that america isn't a theocracy of one.
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Re: Proposition 8

Post by Rat-morningstar » Wed May 27, 2009 7:26 am

being open about being gay is "new", yes.

around the year 0, it wasn't weird, but give me an example of people being open about being gay in the last 1500 years.

come on, i dare you.
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Re: Proposition 8

Post by Bandit_8[ » Wed May 27, 2009 10:27 am

I think there might be some confusion about the opposition to Prop 8. Not all those who were opposed were anti-gay. The Gay and Lesbians who opposed it felt it was worded poorly, and if adapted, it would be harder to change it than to get the initial measure passed.

Just because someone is opposed to a particular measure, or bill, doesn't mean one is against the spirit of the thing.

Just clarifying.
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Re: Proposition 8

Post by ayeyah » Wed May 27, 2009 3:38 pm

Pentagram.J2 wrote:Today May 26, 2009 California's supreme court allowed the proposition to remain intact. The Proposition forbids same-sex marriage in California and supporters are now trying to null and void all gay marriages that were made when it was legal.

I for one am completely outraged that this was allowed to stand. As I am a gay rights activist and a member of the Gay-Straight Alliance and have many gay friends who were going to get married in celebration of the overturning.

Prop 8 is discrimination legalized, nothing else. And I was wondering how the rest of the community felt. Especially you Joe. Thank You.
I sympathize with you, but the thing about this lawsuit is that it was primarily challenging Prop 8 as an amendment, not the constitutionality of Prop 8 itself. Thus, the court basically said that the people of California have a right to amend their constitution through the initiative process, and somewhat subtly, also noted at how fucked up said initiative process is. In premise and theory, it sounds nice that we put power in the people's hands, but it's brought a whole load of problems (the current budget crisis also has roots in CA's initiative process), because the initiative process assumes that common citizens have a working knowledge of the Constitution. They don't.

The other states got it right: this sort of thing should be legislated by legislators, not by folks who don't even know that a 14th amendment exists, let alone what it says. In other words, this is a REPUBLIC, not a DEMOCRACY, and as such, leave it to the people who actually study law for a living! And the thing is, the state itself was ready to legalize same-sex marriage: the legislators, governor Ah-nuld, and even the court in the In re Marriage cases have proven so; thus it is primarily the misinformed, naive, and quite obstinate religious right that let something like this fuck up our constitution. After all, many people's notion of 'equal rights' is rooted in the idea that "some people are more equal than others".

That being said, I think a group of lawyers are going to appeal the case to the federal courts, but I honestly think it's a bad idea to do it immediately, considering the composition of the SCOTUS right now (read: Alito, Scalia, Thomas, Roberts...).
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Re: Proposition 8

Post by ajentjbobclinton » Wed May 27, 2009 7:59 pm

So if you don't understand the constitution you shouldn't take part in this vote?
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Re: Proposition 8

Post by Neelpos » Wed May 27, 2009 8:04 pm

If you don't understand what your vote will do you shouldn't vote, especially if the vote could cause a large amount of damage to any group whatsoever.
In my opinion at least, I believe in voting, just not if you have no fucking idea what you're voting for.
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Re: Proposition 8

Post by Pentagram.J2 » Wed May 27, 2009 8:06 pm

I have to say I'm pretty surprised how many replies I got. I was seriously just in a great needing of venting. Though don't take that the wrong way i still care majorly. Anyway I'm glad there are no bigots here, I would have had a coronary.
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Re: Proposition 8

Post by Neelpos » Wed May 27, 2009 8:11 pm

oh you just haven't seen the entire forums
trust me, j2 is pretty diverse, sometimes in a bad way
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Re: Proposition 8

Post by koko » Wed May 27, 2009 8:33 pm

Ya theres the group that hang out in oi. And the cherry clan. and don't forget the conspiracy theorists.
theres even the stoner group. Oh yeah and the trolls.
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Re: Proposition 8

Post by ayeyah » Wed May 27, 2009 8:57 pm

ajentjbobclinton wrote:So if you don't understand the constitution you shouldn't take part in this vote?
Ideally, every voting citizen should understand their constitution before taking part in a vote that amends it, but that's why the United States is a republic, and not a strict democracy. The CA Constitution is cluttered and ridiculous, but at the very least, voters should understand the basics of the federal constitution, and how it's supposed to prevent institutionalized discrimination against suspect classes.

It's nice that the initiative process puts more democratic power into the people's hands, but that becomes incredibly dangerous if the people use it unwisely and without restraint (as it is, it's entirely possible to decriminalize murder through the initiative process).
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Re: Proposition 8

Post by joe » Wed May 27, 2009 10:17 pm

Pentagram.J2 wrote:Anyway I'm glad there are no bigots here
in my experience most fps-gaming-based communities have a large share of bigots. hopefully we are an exception
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Re: Proposition 8

Post by stabbyclaus » Wed May 27, 2009 10:43 pm

for the most part we are Joe, we just got some ill advised patrons who need to go back to school.
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Re: Proposition 8

Post by Sizzler » Thu May 28, 2009 2:14 pm

Pentagram.J2 wrote:I have to say I'm pretty surprised how many replies I got. I was seriously just in a great needing of venting. Though don't take that the wrong way i still care majorly. Anyway I'm glad there are no bigots here, I would have had a coronary.
I like the guy in your avatar hes p funny
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