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 Post subject: Why I am done taking Competitive Matchmaking seriously.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:46 pm 
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For starters I believe this belongs in mature because it does not fit anywhere else and I want it to be taken somewhat seriously.

Basically I am done with the way people act in competitive matchmaking. Whether it is CSGO, League of Legends, or anything other game. It has managed to ruin the fun for me so many times that if it were a player in TF4 back in the olden days it would have been banned by now.

I have seen people climb from the ELOs I play in to higher ones, come back down and play with me and others in lower ELOs. They take the game so much more seriously than they used to. To the point where me or others get talked down to because now all of a sudden we are bad or need to get good? Months ago we were better than you or just as good as you. Just because one is in a higher ELO does not give them the right to talk down to lower ELOs or be passive aggressive about inferior skill levels. Saying shit like "aim better", or "why did you do that". Does not help with shit and is frustrating. I personally love queueing with people below my ELO because I get to teach them. It pains me that so many are caught off guard by my nice nature. When I have to preface with "just trying to help ya-".

It is also ridiculous that people refuse to queue with those of lower ELOs I think. Granted I understand this point is a huge opinion still I hate being excluded from my friends that I have played with for years. Because their ELO is so important that they won't queue with me because I will "bring them down". That just sucks to hear from people that I have grown to enjoy playing games with. My friends IRL do this too. They won't queue with each other because one's MMR or ELO is to low and it will bring them down. Honestly that's pretty rude.

Video games are meant to be fun, and multiplayer video games are meant to be played with friends and have fun interactions with each other. I don't know how many times I have seen a bad CSGO game ruin everyone's mood in the lobby (especially if a higher ELO is in there with us). So what if we are getting wrecked, still have fun with it on the way down. Be humble in defeat, and definitely shit talk the other team. Do not shit talk your teammates. I will queue with silver's all day. And I feel bad because one J2 member won't queue with me anymore because he was silver and dragged us down. Needless to say he had a bad experience because of things fore-mentioned. I still invite him but he never comes.

All that competitive matchmaking seems to be doing is segregating communities. Whether it is us here at J2 or my friends in real life. Someone being bad should never be a reason not to play with them. Especially if it is just a casual or normal game. The fact that someone is worse than you should be seen as an opportunity to help another member of the larger community you are a part of. I mean you're both playing the same game, so why not help them be better? Think back to either who taught you or the hours you had to grind to get good on your own. Everyone starts somewhere even with video games. Especially games like CSGO, Dota 2, or LOL, where the games are so complex and deep that a beginner might feel overwhelmed. I remember once when playing League with my friend & a J2 member, my buddy told me "your friend is bad", I wanted to look at him and say "so stop bitching and help him out". But it wasn't worth the fight at that moment.

Now I am an incredibly competitive person by nature. I always want to win at whatever I do in life. Whether it is an intramural basketball game, get the highest score on an exam, or win a comp match in CSGO I will give it my all. But my new approach to queuing in comp will be to not take it seriously if things go south. It is just one game, and so what if it drops me an ELO. I am playing this game because it my hobby and it is supposed to be fun. What's the difference if my name has four stars or an AK next to it? To me nothing, aside from that's the ranking the computer gave me. That doesn't mean that I won't try anymore in comp, I will still be trying my best but if things go south I am not gonna let it ruin my mood. In addition, I will also do my best not to let it ruin others moods. The fact that people will rage so hard at a game to me is sad. Passion is one thing, but straight anger at something that is supposed to bring you joy to me is depressing. My friends IRL are very bad with this, and I don't understand it.

At the end of a day a video game should be an escape from the stresses of real life, and people need to stop letting it add onto the stresses of their everyday life. Additionally bringing other players down is not an okay thing to do no matter how much better you are. Help them or don't play the game at all. No community has room for pretentious jerks.

Discuss:

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 Post subject: Re: Why I am done taking Competitive Matchmaking seriously.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:11 pm 
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people taking casual, normal matches seriously is a cancer to society at large

competitive play is very, very fun when done with a good group. however, that's rare, and a lot of times it's stressful. but comp play isnt forced, so im not going to not take comp seriously. i wont take casual games seriously tho.

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 Post subject: Re: Why I am done taking Competitive Matchmaking seriously.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:30 pm 
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narwal wrote:
people taking casual, normal matches seriously is a cancer to society at large

competitive play is very, very fun when done with a good group. however, that's rare, and a lot of times it's stressful. but comp play isnt forced, so im not going to not take comp seriously. i wont take casual games seriously tho.

Maybe there is a disconnect in the vocabulary I was aiming for then. Taking it seriously and trying hard should be two different things in this context. I mean taking it so seriously that it affects your mood or causes you to belittle other players.

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 Post subject: Re: Why I am done taking Competitive Matchmaking seriously.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:44 pm 
 Tall Man with Feelings
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What a beautiful take on the topic ian7, though a bit long.

Completely agree with you on the whole notion of competitive matching segregating groups of people
and people bringing in their personal stress and worries into the game. In the end of it, it definitely does suck the fun out of the whole thing, which
pretty sure is the ultimate goal, the grand intention of like playing online with your friends and spending , your free time, on .

When you obviously know people are going to get picked out or ignored ,and that you have to set up/plan ahead just to simply play a game you
feel like you are giving up some of the liberties involved in what you partake, or at least others will. And that's literally no different than being
any other public situation where some people have to suck it up, in order for everyone to go along with something. Like being in a public school
or just waiting in line in a super market at peak hours.

It's like, compare it to going into a concert and consider all those annoying lil things you have to put up with, people who are too tall and block the view (guilty),
annoying mosh pit people, people with no class embarrassing themselves, some person who clearly had too many drinks or drugs ,and even those overzealous dads who
who go with their hot daughters exactly like someone walking a dog on a leash. Why can't everyone just go to a concert and socialize equally whislt enjoying your favorite bands (psss common music interest helps with the socializing).

The point is a complete change of attitude on the whole competitive gaming is totally reasonable. When the many (most casual gamers) have to give up their
privileges to the will of the few (people who are too serious into competitive games), then that's a clear sign of the need of the serious gamers to impose their control
,and thus limiting the liberties and fun of the majority.

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 Post subject: Re: Why I am done taking Competitive Matchmaking seriously.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:56 pm 
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rottencheeseCA wrote:
then that's a clear sign of the need of the serious gamers to impose their control
,and thus limiting the liberties and fun of the majority.

I think it's more to do with different people having different expectations for what they're getting into, and those conflicting views causing them to misinterpret each other, and ultimately cause friction. Some people play competitive for fun, I play competitive because I enjoy the challenge of climbing the ranks. From my perspective, putting myself in a game where my teammates aren't going to have some of the knowledge that our enemies will have is a disadvantage I'd prefer not to have, on the other hand I want to play with my friends, It makes a bit of a conflict. I begin to expect things of my teammates that I shouldn't reasonably expect.

If my banter has been a bit too much then I'm sorry Ian, I don't really mean anything by it, I just crack wise. I do try to give you guys tips on how to improve and things to work on (such as my constant haranguing for learning how to use smoke grenades), but that may just be because I'm thinking you're like me and want to see how high you can go and I'm trying to push you guys, when in reality you just want to play competitive for fun and ultimately don't care what rank you reach.

If I need to cool it when I'm on my alt just let me know, I can just try to keep the aggressive competitiveness to my primary account, and use the alt for what it's mostly meant for anyways, fuckin around and drinkan.

In the end though, I think there's one thing that we can all agree upon as a viable solution to all of this, allowing us all to play CS together and not care about any of that crap.

CSJO WHEN
ARCHER. KOD.
WHEN.

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 Post subject: Re: Why I am done taking Competitive Matchmaking seriously.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:29 pm 
 Tall Man with Feelings
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Django made that post. I never try to win. That's lame. all that matters is KDR

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 Post subject: Re: Why I am done taking Competitive Matchmaking seriously.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:38 pm 
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This wouldn't be a problem if we had CSJO

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 Post subject: Re: Why I am done taking Competitive Matchmaking seriously.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:27 am 
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Neelpos wrote:
rottencheeseCA wrote:
then that's a clear sign of the need of the serious gamers to impose their control
,and thus limiting the liberties and fun of the majority.

I think it's more to do with different people having different expectations for what they're getting into, and those conflicting views causing them to misinterpret each other, and ultimately cause friction.


I disagree. You Neel are the competitive player in this situation so it might be harder for you to see. But those taking it seriously will have this effect on the other players whether they try to or not. What happens is the competitive player's attitude will start to unintentionally bleed into the other players. I have experienced this first hand in CSGO, and it took some time away from the game (though forced because of school) to realize my intentions had changed when playing the game. As a result I was having less fun than before. It is not a matter of friction due to conflicting views, but friction due the more casual players not being able to live up to the expectations of the competitive players. This can be because of view sometimes, but I'd say about 90% of the time it is either due to lack of skill or knowledge about the game.

Neelpos wrote:
If my banter has been a bit too much then I'm sorry Ian, I don't really mean anything by it, I just crack wise. I do try to give you guys tips on how to improve and things to work on (such as my constant haranguing for learning how to use smoke grenades), but that may just be because I'm thinking you're like me and want to see how high you can go and I'm trying to push you guys, when in reality you just want to play competitive for fun and ultimately don't care what rank you reach.

The only problem I really have personally with you Neel is that I can't play with you anymore. But that problem is now solved due to you having a smurf. Your banter is not to much, and you construct things in a learning way. When I mention people not being helpful or dicks about getting better that is a very broad shot at a lot of players I have played with over the past several months. While I want to take the game more casually I still want to learn the ins and outs of it because it helps me be better.

For a while I did want to see how high I could climb in the ranks. Then I realized how much I was stressing during each match knowing it weighed heavily on my MMR because I was either in a slump or on a roll.

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 Post subject: Re: Why I am done taking Competitive Matchmaking seriously.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:14 pm 
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I don't like the way CSGO segregates the idea of "casual" vs "competitive". It's a competitive game and by calling non-matchmaking games casual they are inadvertently giving players license to act either way too serious or not serious enough. The "casual" server settings shouldn't even exist. It should just be called ranked and unranked. And really though ranked shouldn't be a thing. I just can't get over how many people now take all this e-sports crap seriously.


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 Post subject: Re: Why I am done taking Competitive Matchmaking seriously.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:28 pm 
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So ima kanye the discussion for a sec to talk about how competitive matchmaking in these games is kinda poor through the example of LoL. League's meta may have shifted far from the days of outplaying a laner to win s game towards teamfighting, but the issue of win conditions remains: you dont win in these games because you do well, you win by not having the worst player on your team.

In a 5v5 game where nobody can easily back out and every game can feel like a waste of 20 min until /ff, you're at the mercy of the four other fuckers among you. These are games where teamwork matters, not personal skill, yet you're given a ranking essentially based on how much you want to babysit your teammates and/or how well you can tilt the opposing team.

Why is soloq even a thing. I feel like there should just be that salt shaker gif just above ranked teams in place of solo/duoq. Ranked teams dont even get the same rankings as soloq players, but theyre playing the same game. The different rankings for different modes of ranked is why soloq isn't gone altogether; ranked teams ensures a minimum level of familiarity, communication, and coordination, and if you dont like your teammates that you queued with, you dont have to ever queue with them again. Just play ranked for fun? Go for it, find four others who feel the same way. Do you play for the shiny digital border over your champion in the loading screen? Fuck it, why not. Want to get into the e-sports scene so you can make it big? Uninstall.

Im not saying remove pubstomping or carrying a team of feeder dogs, i just dont think ppl should be able to solo queue for team-oriented games, or people who queue as a team should at least be given the same rank. Id rather face a sweaty tryhard squad with friends than be stuck in a game for 20 minutes playing farm simulatir only to get reported for typing "gg ez" as our nexus blows up.

I had the most fun with the pressure-free co-op vs ai mode until i got access to the beta servers, there's very little expectation to so well, and everyone's bullshit meters are a ton less sensitive. Thats the mentality for normal or unranked games. Plenty of room to be the 1v9 GG Pro Riven. Especially when your friend is bronze 5 and you wanna play a match with him :3 ad crittlesticks OP OP. Finally, voice chat should be encouraged, not unsupported in a 2015 multiplayer environment. People should be encouraged to communicate clearly and effectively in a team-oriented game.

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 Post subject: Re: Why I am done taking Competitive Matchmaking seriously.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:53 pm 
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Dude, rotten nailed it with his very coherent and elaborate post.
I completely agree with him.

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 Post subject: Re: Why I am done taking Competitive Matchmaking seriously.
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 6:00 am 
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dyl1138: These are games where teamwork matters, not personal skill, yet you're given a ranking essentially based on how much you want to babysit your teammates and/or how well you can tilt the opposing team.

This is kind of true for the individual game. But if every other player in your MMR has the same likelihood of being teamed with that kind of player, isn't that as fair as a randomly assembled queue could be? For me, once you consider the fact that the only thing that every player has in every one of their matches is themselves, an overall ranking seems like a good representation, even if the individual games don't represent the player well.

dyl1138: Why is soloq even a thing. <...> Ranked teams dont even get the same rankings as soloq players, but theyre playing the same game <...> ranked teams ensures a minimum level of familiarity, communication, and coordination <...> Im not saying remove pubstomping or carrying a team of feeder dogs <...> Id rather face a sweaty tryhard squad with friends than be stuck in a game for 20 minutes playing farm simulatir only to get reported for typing "gg ez" as our nexus blows up.

This is contradictory to me. Specifically, the idea that solo queue and team queue are "the same game". I disagree, and you partly explain why.
Why do you seem to want to get rid of solo queue?
They have very different dynamics, and for all of the reasons you explained and more, I would never expect the same experience from them.
It sounds to me like you're calling solo queue a less pure form of ranked play, but I would consider it a completely different form of ranked play, pure in its own way. More chaotic, with a different kind of human interaction.

By the way, are we friends on League of Legends? If not you should add me, my Summoner is Richard Dawkins.



On the topic of mixing video gaming and (negative?) emotions:
I like friendly competition, and banter. I used to take games a lot more seriously, now I get excited from time to time.
As Narwal is aware from League of Legends, I don't appreciate being friendly with the enemy team, at least until the match is over. I'm not sure why, but personally it kind of kills my spirit of competition. That is, complimenting the enemy, treating them the same way you would your team. Before and after the game is a different matter, though.
As a younger sibling, I spent most of my early gaming getting owned by my older brother. As a result I have learned that it is simply the best method for learning how to play; getting absolutely destroyed mercilessly until you can do the same. Also as a result, I don't mind playing against or with people of a different skill level.
That being said, if I'm going to play with someone who is a much different rank than me, I would rather play normal, regardless of whether they're better or worse, because I want to maintain the ranked environment I perform the best in when I'm getting ranked.

It confuses me when someone is a drastically different rank and wants to play ranked. Why ranked and not normal? I would actually appreciate an answer to this

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 Post subject: Re: Why I am done taking Competitive Matchmaking seriously.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:18 am 
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I feel like getting "shit talked" by teammates in ranked CS:GO or League can be a good lesson for me on how to not let other people's opinions about me(or projections of their own.) Effect me emotionally, mentally, or game play wise(how well I do.)

If I do end up letting it bother me, or I just don't want to hear it, I mute people who nerd rage or talk shit AS SOON AS THEY SAY ONE THING.


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 Post subject: Re: Why I am done taking Competitive Matchmaking seriously.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 3:15 pm 
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Nice bump. Yeah since I wrote this I can confidently say that I do not get tilted anymore. Like ever, it's the nicest thing. I see my roommates raging all the time and I feel bad for them to be honest. Don't get me wrong when I am playing competitive Overwatch or the OCCASIONAL ranked league game I still take it seriously. I actually prefer competitive overwatch to the cess pool of shitty strategies and teams of 3 genjis that is quick play.

I either mute/report people in Overwatch and get on to the next game or in League if I am dealing with douches I just stop playing for the day. I do that in League because I usually only play with my roommates so anything outside of that is just me feeling spicy so it's w/e if it does not go well. Which it never does because the League community BLOWS.

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