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Re: do you prefer people in your life to be simple or complex?

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:55 pm
by Charlie
Bogey wrote:The racial beliefs of the Nazis were never more than biased pseudoscience, and were mostly fueled by xenophobia.
There is no scientific basis that any one race of people is better than the other, and the subject is almost entirely subjective.
Plus, real scientific subjects such as genetic drift and adaptation make the Nazi concept of a super race seem pretty absurd from a scientific standpoint.
Besides, even if their pursuits were scientific, modern societies have strict ethical guidelines that scientists must follow.
Yes. There are absurd movements in science, just as there are absurd movements in religion. Good observation.

Atheism vs Religion -- who has the higher body count?

Interesting article (or not):
Seems to make some pretty rational points.

Re: do you prefer people in your life to be simple or complex?

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:50 pm
by Dr Lecter
I really feel like charlie is just trolling seeing how he has resorted to debating the word atheism, considering how 99% of people in the world would realize that joe and KOD are using atheism instead of typing "people who don't believe in gawd".

But then again, trolling came to be in the 1990's and some could debate that trolling is only related to the fishing version of the verb.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

But then again this is an argument where someone is trying to say believing in an idea because there isn't proof to discredit it is more sensible than not believing in the same idea because there isn't proof.

Re: do you prefer people in your life to be simple or complex?

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:57 pm
by Charlie
So an atheistic view in your estimation is what?

The only scientific rational view possible?

As far as trolling... you are the one resorting to name calling. Pot calling the kettle black...

99% of the people in the world realize atheism is a typified peoples who do not believe in God. What does that mean? Atheists don't believe anything? Is that what you are purporting?

Re: do you prefer people in your life to be simple or complex?

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:18 pm
by joe
are you trolling charlie? i remember you as a smart person but you're making a lot of specious statements. i don't really want to bother responding to things like "atheism is a faith." that's just a dumb thing to say. it implies you don't know what the word faith means, and it's a waste of my time having a conversation at that level.

Re: do you prefer people in your life to be simple or complex?

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:25 pm
by Bogey
Of course he is trolling.
Nobody capable of using a computer could still think that atheism is a religion.

Re: do you prefer people in your life to be simple or complex?

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:38 pm
by Charlie
OK... Yes, Joe. I am a troll.

Atheism is not a belief, it is not a faith. Really?!

From Webster's Dictionary:
athe·ism
noun \ˈā-thē-ˌi-zəm\
Definition of ATHEISM
1
archaic : ungodliness, wickedness
2
a : a disbelief in the existence of deity b : the doctrine that there is no deity

Disbelief in a deity... i.e., the belief that there is no deity -- is that not a rational extrapolation? No?!

Sounds to me like it runs on faith. What is faith? Let's look at Webster's again...

1faith
noun \ˈfāth\
plural faiths \ˈfāths, sometimes ˈfāthz\
Definition of FAITH
1
a : allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2
a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3
: something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant faith>

It would seem that atheists believe there is no God with strong conviction -- or is that just completely irrational?

I remember you too, Joe. Pleasantly. Many fun gaming and LAN (well one) sessions -- alas I haven't had the time for gaming lately.

If you think I am being deceptive and false, if we cannot agree on the basic meaning of words and if we need to resort to name-calling to end this dialogue so be it. What dialogue can endure when words have lost their meaning.

I found this an interesting and enjoyable discourse. It is your forum, I respect it and you. I have no problem withdrawing and abstaining; I shall leave it to you to keep it real.

Stay well, Joseph... and do try to keep an open mind (I have trouble with that myself at times).

Re: do you prefer people in your life to be simple or complex?

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:40 pm
by Charlie
Bogey wrote:Of course he is trolling.
Et tu, Bogey? :)

Re: do you prefer people in your life to be simple or complex?

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:51 pm
by joe
i have a completely open mind. feel free to show me evidence of god any time.

Re: do you prefer people in your life to be simple or complex?

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:09 pm
by Bogey
Charlie wrote:It would seem that atheists believe there is no God with strong conviction -- or is that just completely irrational?
Ah, well here is where you are going wrong. Found it!
Atheists don't necessarily believe there is NO god.
I'm an atheist, and I don't rule out the possibility that there is a god.
At the same time, I have never seen a single shred of evidence that there exists a god, therefor I don't currently believe that any god exists.
Some atheists believe that there definitely is no god, but I tend to fault them for using poor logic in the same way I do theists.

Atheism is conviction-less.
Like I said, saying that atheism is a religion is like saying "off" is a TV channel.
It's like saying anyone who doesn't believe in Santa Clause is part of a religion.
Can you now see the absurdity in calling atheism a religion?

Re: do you prefer people in your life to be simple or complex?

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:30 pm
by Mad_Dugan
There are an infinite number of possible claims that haven't been proven E.g. Fairies, Unicorns, bigfoot, pink invisible dragons, orbiting teapots, etc.

Singling out one and claiming that disbelief in it is a faith seems ridiculous.

Re: do you prefer people in your life to be simple or complex?

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:33 pm
by Nightwolf
Well its a belief in a certain idea. And those ideas that cannot be proven are opinions. Until we have a device that can prove or disprove the existence of god this is a really big circle jerk game.

Everyone belief the their idea is what reality is. The key point is that no one can prove it without the shadow of a doubt.

anyways ignore what I said and continue playing your game.

Re: do you prefer people in your life to be simple or complex?

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:48 pm
by Charlie
My last comment would be... if you choose not too decide, you still have made a choice. Peace. Out.

Re: do you prefer people in your life to be simple or complex?

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:47 pm
by joe
it's not a "choice" to believe proven facts.

Re: do you prefer people in your life to be simple or complex?

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:04 pm
by Nightwolf
What facts do you speak of Joe?

Re: do you prefer people in your life to be simple or complex?

Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:44 am
by joe
the fact that there is no evidence god exists