do you prefer people in your life to be simple or complex?

politics, religion, science, art, barack obama, belgium, etc.

do you prefer people in your life to be simple or complex?

Poll ended at Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:31 pm

simple
11
23%
complex
36
77%
 
Total votes: 47
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Re: do you prefer people in your life to be simple or complex?

Post by King_Fluffy » Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:06 am

A proven fact? The real fact is that none of us knows the truth, neither atheist nor theist have any proof.
Could you please show us your proof, and just because they're is no evidence of god doesn't serve as evidence of no god, seeing as theists could use that excuse too "well, there isn't any proof of there not being a god, so he must exist". In which case, it would become a circle that most of these religion-themed conversatioms lead too because neother side, again, has any proof and are basically saying too eachother "you prove it first".
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Re: do you prefer people in your life to be simple or complex?

Post by Bogey » Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:40 am

King_Fluffy wrote:A proven fact? The real fact is that none of us knows the truth, neither atheist nor theist have any proof.
At least atheists admit we don't know.
Well, most of us do anyway...
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Re: do you prefer people in your life to be simple or complex?

Post by joe » Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:45 am

we already went over this. the two sides are not equivalent.

i believe in things proven by science. i don't have to prove the talking dildo in neptune's orbit exists because i don't claim it exists. if you want be to believe god exists, you'll need to show me some proof. until then, it's an incredibly ridiculous tale about an invisible guy who created the universe and helps football teams win based on human prayer. it's MORE absurd than the talking dildo, which at least doesn't have supernatural powers.

the truth about religion is self-evident. it's spectacularly dumb. it's just mind boggling that anyone over the age of 5 believes any of it.
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Re: do you prefer people in your life to be simple or complex?

Post by Rat-morningstar » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:25 am

saying atheism is a religion is like saying not-collecting stamps is a hobby


also:
"When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
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Re: do you prefer people in your life to be simple or complex?

Post by Nightwolf » Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:05 pm

joe wrote:we already went over this. the two sides are not equivalent.

i believe in things proven by science. i don't have to prove the talking dildo in neptune's orbit exists because i don't claim it exists. if you want be to believe god exists, you'll need to show me some proof. until then, it's an incredibly ridiculous tale about an invisible guy who created the universe and helps football teams win based on human prayer. it's MORE absurd than the talking dildo, which at least doesn't have supernatural powers.

the truth about religion is self-evident. it's spectacularly dumb. it's just mind boggling that anyone over the age of 5 believes any of it.
Well if you know of an experiment proven by science, that shows that god doesn't exist. Could you please share with the rest of us to put this matter at rest?
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Re: do you prefer people in your life to be simple or complex?

Post by Bogey » Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:35 pm

Nightwolf wrote:Well if you know of an experiment proven by science, that shows that god doesn't exist. Could you please share with the rest of us to put this matter at rest?
Has anyone in this thread said that God definitely doesn't exist?
There is no evidence that there is a god, so no person approaching the question with proper logic will arrive at the conclusion that there is one.
The burden is on those claiming that there IS a god to prove it, rather than the rest of us to disprove it.
Based on how much this comes up, we should probably have a "shifting the burden of proof" disclaimer or something on these forums.
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Re: do you prefer people in your life to be simple or complex?

Post by Nightwolf » Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:44 pm

Oooh so Joe doesn't have facts, just his own conclusion.
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Re: do you prefer people in your life to be simple or complex?

Post by NightFantom » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:19 pm

absence of belief =/= belief of absence

atheists are everywhere and believe differently

one might, indeed, believe there is no god
one might not even care
one might only accept things proven by science
probably others that i can't think of right now

but they are all atheists, no?
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Re: do you prefer people in your life to be simple or complex?

Post by mbaxter » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:22 pm

Nightwolf wrote:Oooh so Joe doesn't have facts, just his own conclusion.
Fact: There is no evidence of any god.

Conclusion: There is no proof that god exists.


Sounds valid to me.
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Re: do you prefer people in your life to be simple or complex?

Post by King_Fluffy » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:40 pm

mbaxter wrote:Conclusion: There is no proof that god exists..
'There is no proof that god doesn't exist'
That's what I said at the first post of this page, that neither side has any proof. So no one knows.
But me and I think Nightwolf were curious over this;
joe wrote:it's not a "choice" to believe proven facts.
As stated previously I was unware of any proof from either group.

"There is no proof that god doesn't exist" doesn't serve as evidence for atheists.
So why should:
"There is no proof that god exists" serve as evidence for theists?
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Re: do you prefer people in your life to be simple or complex?

Post by mbaxter » Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:08 pm

I suspect joe's just talking about the idea that many religious people resist facts. Not all, but many. Examples include the age of the earth and the facts behind the theory of evolution (note how I worded that. I'm not here to debate evolution. I'm talking about the facts that are there, not the extrapolation bit). More extreme examples of ignorance include the belief that humans and dinosaurs roamed the earth together.
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Re: do you prefer people in your life to be simple or complex?

Post by Nightwolf » Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:40 pm

In all seriousness, reality as we know it we can at least agree that in science they have realized that "Dreams dream the dreamer." In other words its a big illusion. Why would god be here, in a physical form?

There was an interesting guy on the Daily Show a few shows back saying the same thing... he also talked about parallel universes and such.

Its like fish trying to describe living outside of water, thus far there really isn't much in science that can tell us much about that beyond, or even if there is or isn't one.

Also you are correct King_Fluffy that is what I was inquiring about.
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Re: do you prefer people in your life to be simple or complex?

Post by stickbeast » Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:44 pm

I presume none of you believe in unicorns or fairies or The Flying Spaghetti Monster for the same reason many of us don't believe in a god. So what makes our "lack of evidence or proof" suddenly become invalid when we call ourselves atheists.
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Re: do you prefer people in your life to be simple or complex?

Post by Mad_Dugan » Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:47 pm

The reason you can't use 'Lack of evidence' as proof something might exist is there is no rational reason to even ask the question if something exists without some evidence. There is no rational reason to ask if an 'invisible dragon' exists, because there is no evidence to suggest we should look further into it existing.

The same goes for an infinite number of claims that we naturally disregard everyday.
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Re: do you prefer people in your life to be simple or complex?

Post by Nightwolf » Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:53 pm

Thats true, but because it gives way to a possible conclusion, its doesn't make it fact.

To which was the initial inquiry to Joe.
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