Bernie Sanders

politics, religion, science, art, barack obama, belgium, etc.

Do you stand with Sanders?

Yes
33
63%
No
12
23%
I don't know
1
2%
Not anymore
1
2%
Who cares [note: you should]
5
10%
 
Total votes: 52
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KatanaRama
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by KatanaRama » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:30 pm

Putting it quite simply I do not have any particular favor towards any of the candidates. However, if I were forced to vote Sanders would have my vote. I agree with many of his policies, and I think that he's just about the only candidate progressive and "extreme" enough to actually be able to change this country for the better. Whether or no this country can handle, or even wants socialism I do think that it needs it at this point. Even if it wouldn't be long lasting I do hope that socialism is the right move for the U.S. to get back on it's feet and finally address the problems that the country suffers from.
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KatanaRama
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by KatanaRama » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:37 pm

Also, double-post but..

I feel like that at this point, the whole republican/democrat bullshit has gotten waaaaaaay out of hand. It really feels to me at least, that people more or less just sign on board with whatever political party they're raised with. This is turning the party system into more of a battle between two dynasties rather than groups of people who follow of their own accord. Both sides just follow whichever they're taught to and it just goes in a constant feedback loop.
The ideals of party should be the result of the countries conditions and change accordingly. Not the other way around.

EDIT: In short it would seem that the whole concept of political parties has lost it's original purpose/meaning, and is just a tumor that needs to be removed.
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Bao
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by Bao » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:45 pm

KatanaRama wrote:Putting it quite simply I do not have any particular favor towards any of the candidates. However, if I were forced to vote Sanders would have my vote. I agree with many of his policies, and I think that he's just about the only candidate progressive and "extreme" enough to actually be able to change this country for the better. Whether or no this country can handle, or even wants socialism I do think that it needs it at this point. Even if it wouldn't be long lasting I do hope that socialism is the right move for the U.S. to get back on it's feet and finally address the problems that the country suffers from.

I feel like that at this point, the whole republican/democrat bullshit has gotten waaaaaaay out of hand. It really feels to me at least that people more or less just sign on board with whatever political party they're raised with. This is turning the party system into more of a battle between two dynasties rather than groups of people who follow of their own accord. Both sides just follow whichever they're taught to and it just goes in a constant feedback loop. The ideals of party should be the result of the countries conditions and change accordingly. Not the other way around.
Thats basically how I feel about it, though I think if I'd be forced to vote I'd probably join whatever underground resistence probably existed in that weird probably Orwellian hypothetical situation (Australia). The lesser of evils isn't really a thing I buy into.

Though if with all the popular support he has, if he still loses the Democratic nomination then its basically proof of that process not really having anything to do with the public.

Also I've seen some critiques of Sanders that basically say he isn't really a socialist and some of them are written by actual socialists. And I know I said Clinton was basically just as genocidal as a GOP candidate but I don't really think Sanders is perfect in that department either. Just probably not as bad seeing as he wants to withdraw involvement from the Middle East instead of continuing the pattern of finding whatever fucking excuse (or constructing an excuse) to use military aggression in that region.

---

[Just saw your doublepost]

I think the Republican vs Democrat thing has been a problem for almost a century. I'm not sure what the exact reasons are for why things went down that way, but I think the general consensus that the two parties are almost identical in actual actions isn't far from the truth. I mean to use the Middle East example again, literally the only candidate that seems to want to stop these wars is Bernie Sanders and hes actually an independent running as a Democrat.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by Sanvich Hoovy » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:37 pm

The strong division between left and right that we see today isn't anything new, but it's definitely gotten worse over the past few years, due to a number of long term factors that have grown over the last decade+. Gerrymandering and various crises in the US (9/11, Iraq War, horrible Bush presidency, '07 crash) all contributed to the radicalization of ideas that we see today. Not to mention we've continuously seen the growth of corporate interests over the needs of the people (Reaganomics and Union-busting in the 80's, repeal of Glass-Steagle in the 90's, and basically everything done under Bush).
But the biggest single problem was the Citizens United decision, legalizing bribery of politicians by corporations, essentially making a middle or lower class citizen have little to no say in their government. Say what you will about Bernie, and you can argue with his economic policy all you want (I happen to agree with it but I've seen totally reasonable reasons for disagreeing), he's the only candidate who even seems to acknowledge that these issues exist, instead of pandering to whatever hot-button issue cable news networks are perpetuating this week (like any candidate is going to do jack-shit about the US-Mexican border), so you better bet he's got my fucking vote.
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Bao
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by Bao » Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:07 pm

To be honest, I think part of the problem at least with the public's understanding of the situation is that the Democratic and Republican party don't actually represent left and right at all.

To me at least and many others I've talked to, the Democratic party seems very very clearly right wing, so is the Republican party just more overtly so.

The Political Compass for example has Barack Obama as a rightist and I agree with that despite him not being as rightist as Bush.

Image

In fact, left and right is kind of an arbitrary concept that started with the French revolution. The above chart uses a 4 point, two-dimensional way of understanding political leanings and thats probably not perfect but its better than the "left and right" concept we use now.

What I'm getting at is, the public doesn't really get that what's considered "left wing" in the USA is still pretty fucking rightist by international ideas of what that means. I know that Obama has said and done a few things Americans consider to be left-leaning, but I don't really think things like mandatory health care or not being completely pro-gun makes someone a leftist.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by Sanvich Hoovy » Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:02 pm

Bump for this sick as fuck interview he did with Run the Jewel's Killer Mike
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by dmitri ravinoff » Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:41 am

calling it now: sanders and trump lose their respective party nominations, then go on the independent ticket together, with Bernie as prez and Trump as VP.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by KoD » Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:55 am

That's an interesting prediction
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by Killtman » Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:10 am

If I was an American citizen I'd vote for Trump.


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Lexiprawn
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by Lexiprawn » Fri Dec 25, 2015 12:06 pm

anyone else notice how IAMsQUIRREL wants to cut taxes and then have a ground war in Syria. That's a way to destroy your own country bro. I like beating a dead horse btw.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by Django » Fri Dec 25, 2015 2:50 pm

Sorry but gotta say Bernie sanders looks like emperor palpatine
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pepper
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by pepper » Mon Dec 28, 2015 3:47 pm

Image
this was written in 1973 by the boy bernie, saw it on the twitter: so here i guess bernie is describing the "two worlds" as that of the two classes that have been dominant in organizing like.. the human condition: the capitalist class and the working class. very good stuff.

ok so flash forward to 2015: the president STILL serves the capitalist class. it's all good and nice that bernie is against big banks and blah blah but at the end of the day the way the house, senate and all this other shit is set up, bernie can only distance himself so much from that capitalist class. and i mean, this is not to say that like bernie is already not a part of the working class anymore, but if he miraculously becomes president the visual facade for me kind of wears off.

bernie is an alright guy im sure, but life won't much better for the working class if he becomes president, history tells us this much, because it doesn't begin or end with one figurehead, and it sure won't get better for the people most oppressed in this country: people of color, trans people, the poor.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by KoD » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:50 pm

pepper wrote:but life won't much better for the working class if he becomes president, history tells us this much, because it doesn't begin or end with one figurehead
You know who else tells us this? Bernie Sanders.

He has said numerous times that it will take way more than just him getting elected to truly change anything. The people have to be on board for change.
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by Waterbear » Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:45 pm

im just gonna move to sweden or norway or some other socialist utopia ezier than changing the US
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pepper
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Re: Bernie Sanders

Post by pepper » Mon Dec 28, 2015 7:02 pm

KoD wrote:
pepper wrote:but life won't much better for the working class if he becomes president, history tells us this much, because it doesn't begin or end with one figurehead
You know who else tells us this? Bernie Sanders.

He has said numerous times that it will take way more than just him getting elected to truly change anything. The people have to be on board for change.
again, great words. I just think the president of the united states is a job title that is incapable of bringing that kind of change. the president needs the people, the people don't need the president.
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