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Syria-Iraq Crisis/Conflict

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:50 pm
by Bao
So "no troops on the ground" is now Special Forces Officially, as opposed to covertly/unofficially on the Ground. ... 11892.html
US special forces will team up with local militias in new operations targeting ISIL in Iraq and Syria [Nabil Al-Jurani/AP]
Washington DC - After years of pulling back from the Middle East, the Obama administration's new plan to use elite American ground troops to combat ISIL is meeting with scepticism among analysts and US lawmakers.

Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter announced on Tuesday the US may soon intensify air strikes against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant in Raqqa and Ramadi, and begin to use special forces on specific missions.
If you guys have seen basically any propaganda that ISIL has put out, you know that they constantly are trying to bait the US into sending troops.

In this kind of early Vice interview (Aug 2014) their press officer literally says at 4:54: "Don't be cowards and attack with your drones, send your troops".

So its now officially happening, officially a plan of the presidential administration instead of just a covert one(special forces were already on the ground).

Its been 12 years since 2003's Iraq War, about 14 years since 2001 9/11, and the Islamic State first started in 2007 by anti-US insurgents in Iraq.

This is the longest fucking war the USA has ever been in and it doesn't look like its gonna end.

Meanwhile, Syria barely exists anymore and refugees are rightly so getting the fuck out of that nightmare, only to be treated like plague rats by Europe and the world's Far-Right.

Image ... -soar.html
Refugees from war-torn Syria claim racism in Germany has become so extreme they want to go home as a growing anti-Muslim movement sees soaring attacks on foreigners.
The nation has been gripped by a spate of anti-foreigners rallies, violence and arson attacks against refugee homes or would-be shelters as hundreds of thousands seek refuge in the country.
This year has already seen about 200 arson and other attacks against refugee housing while support for anti-Muslim movement, Patriotic Europeans Against the Islamization of the West (PEGIDA), has been growing.
This is going on while Russia sends its air force and Iran send its ground troops(they had special forces in there before but now I guess they've sent their main army units). Both seemingly to basically only target anti-Assad rebels and ignore ISIL. There's also been unconfirmed accounts of Russian -troops- fighting as well, though its hard to know if these are maybe just mercenaries or "advisors".

The soldiers in this video are speaking Russian. They are also very obviously White people as opposed to being the mix of races many Middle Eastern people are. The guys though are laughing and not too bothered though, so its possible even with all this its just training that happens to be taking place -in Syria-.

Here's footage of actual fighting, though as part of Russia's aerial attacks.

Yeah this shit looks like City 17, yeah war is pretty horrible. But those refugees just want to steal Europe's money right? (This is what the Far-Right actually believes)

Turkey also has recently attacked the Rojavan Kurds(the people who live in/defended Kobani from ISIL) and has been confirmed by documents recently found in Syria by US Special Forces to have been aiding ISIS(in hopes they would exterminate the Kurds) and played a major role in how they became so powerful. The last bit is something that came to light despite Turkey being a part of Nato and a major US ally, meaning its likely not bullshit or planted evidence. It also matches up with what some ISIL defectors are saying, that their commanding officers told them to not be afraid of Turkey because Turkey would never attack them and was their friend.

I feel like we can safely say shit has finally hit the fan.

EDIT: Right as I got done writing this, apparently a boat with around 200 refugees sank off the coast of Greece. I'm sure the fucking literal nazis(The New Dawn Party) in Greece are celebrating.

EDIT 2: Also I forgot to mention that Assad, the Syrian dictator that is the reason the civil war started, has been confirmed to have killed even more civilians than ISIS. Yet, he's got the support of Russia and Iran who are currently basically waging war for him and saving him from his inevitable defeat by the FSA and other rebel groups.

Re: Syria (You knew this thread was coming)

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:24 pm
by Bash
It was only a matter of time, as soon as I saw Russia, I knew this would slowly turn into drawn out proxy-war that would drown all structure and society in the region. Not to mention the money and resources poured into a ground assault are astronomical, definitely something that America should take a back seat in. Let Russia begin projecting power, there is finally another player on the world stage that can take the fall for the shit-storm of that geographical region. This will only get worse, and say I'm going wide all you want, will in fact be the catalyst for World War three.

Re: Syria (You knew this thread was coming)

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:38 pm
by Bao
I feel like we've been in World War Three for a while, or World War Four if you count the Cold War and its huge amount of proxy-wars(including Vietnam).

Its a conflict involving way over 20 countries, fought on multiple continents, and involving at least one "Superpower". Its also accumulated (much) more than a million deaths. I think its over a million just by the death count in Iraq alone from what I've read. So the War on Terror has more than met the requirements of at least a few definitions of what a World War is.

The phrase is just used really selectively for some reason, there's a lot of other wars that fit those categories. I feel like people would understand how grave the situation is if these types of world conflicts were named that way, but maybe there's a lot invested in -not- calling them that?
Various former government officials, politicians and authors have attempted to apply the labels of WWIII, WWIV, and WWV to various military engagements and diplomatic stand-offs since the close of WWII, such as the Cold War or the War on Terror. Among these are former American and French government officials James Woolsey[45] and Alexandre de Marenches,[46] author Eliot Cohen[47] and Zapatista leader Subcomandante Marcos.[48] Despite their efforts, none of these wars are commonly deemed world wars.
Last guy in that citation was a mega influential leftist leader so I wouldn't be surprised if there's a desire by a lot of right-leaning authorities to not allow that, but thats just my guess.

Re: Syria (You knew this thread was coming)

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:56 pm
by Django
It will require a great philosopher and historian to explain the causes and whirligigs of the so called Syrian War :lecture:

What happens is.... that the way societies get to partake or intervene in such
conflict radicates in what little light mass media shares with the public. To call
the conflict World War III would be hasty, as if you can recall World War I was
given that denomination only at the inception of World War II. Up to that point
it was only refered to as the "Great War".

Meaning that each generation get to experience a multilateral conflict such this
once in a lifetime. Not necessarily a World War .Think about it, for it to truly be
it has to have some continuation where the previous one ended, and that is with
the use of Nuclear Warheads, which this current conflict lacks.

And for those here already picking sides ,winning horses ,and ideological
legitimacy, just take your time and imagine what the autochthonous inhabitants
of the many regions of Syria might think, experience or say on the conflict.
As them being in the spotlight of such conflict, have no conscice voice at the moment.

In other words, the anecdotes that the future syrians will share with their children
in history books and bard-like songs will all start in this way:

"Our country was overraned by barbarians"


Re: Syria-Iraq Crisis/Conflict

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:47 am
by Bao
That truly was a philosophical post because I think it'd be kind of weird not to call a war involving the world a World War, also the USA, Israel, and Russia all have nuclear weapons and they're all involved in some degree.

Also if I had to pick a side, its gonna be with the Kurds and the non-Army of Conquest(Al-Nusra and its allies) anti-Assad rebels. Its probably the only thing I've ever really sided with the USA on, and its just from the fact Assad has killed more people than ISIS and the Kurds are just indigenous people caught in the middle trying to defend themselves from various fascist groups. Though I still would like the USA to get the fuck out of the region and not try to directly confront ISIS because thats what it seems ISIS is hoping for, and the USA also has a long pattern of genocide and endless wars.

I don't really buy into the "wait for history" idea just because by then the Kurds could be in mass graves and Assad could have installed himself an even more dystopia-like regime. Sometimes shit just gets so bad the world has to intervene, but not necessarily through military action like the USA and Russia has chosen. Actually really, especially not if you're the USA or Russia because in that case you already have a history of genocide in the region going back decades.

I don't want to speak for Syrians though and not speaking for them is a good point you've raised. But basically every Kurd and anti-Assad rebel faction has been screaming for someone to help them since maybe 2011 and no one has until just now and I think thats part of why everything went to hell.

EDIT: In fact, I think one of the major theories about how this situation came about was because of the extreme lack of aid given to FSA and Syrian civilians, making it extremely easy for both the Army of Conquest(AL-Q aligned rebel faction) and ISIL to enter the conflict and exploit the situation. Assad and ISIL basically became the best armed, best equipped, best funded, best trained people on the ground basically ensured they would be the strongest factions in the war. The Army of Conquest also basically came in and took advantage of the FSA's rock bottom morale, stealing a huge portion of its recruits and defecting soldiers.

If Russia and China (especially Russia) hadn't been basically veto-ing all UN aid to Syria, I dont think things would have gone this bad. Now Russia is helping Assad, the guy that aid would have hurt. Its pretty easy to see Russia was just afraid to see they're guy in the region go away. Especially since the same happened in Libya, Libya happened to be one of the biggest buyers of Russian weaponry.

Re: Syria-Iraq Crisis/Conflict

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:27 am
by Bao
Double posting just because I remembered this video from Sept 2014.

The Young Turks is shit but they basically predicted things would go this way, as did ISIS judging by its propaganda. The host basically predicted the US would inevitably fall for the bait ISIS was laying with trying to lure the US into a ground war.

"The militant Islamic State group has released a video warning the United States that fighters await it in Iraq if President Barack Obama sends troops there, as he and his top general said may happen.
Its October 2015 and its finally happening, just like this youtube host thought.

"Hook line and sinker we're gonna fall for it. We're in the middle of falling for it as we speak"

Re: Syria-Iraq Crisis/Conflict

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:00 pm
by Django
fuck the usa and russia , free syria forever