Night Terror - A j2 l4d campaign - beta 1 and beyond

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MrBlip
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Re: Night Terror - A j2 l4d campaign - beta 1 and beyond

Post by MrBlip » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:50 pm

Posting this here in case you guys don't see it:
I had a nav issue simular to this, putting a func_nav_blocker that lifts when the path clears fixed it. You might have this in place already, I haven't had a chance to check yet.
From: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/s ... p?t=926453

Maybe it will help? Maybe you already have them in place. I donno.

More info on func_nav_blocker here: http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki ... av_blocker
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Re: Night Terror - A j2 l4d campaign - beta 1 and beyond

Post by Dr.Boo » Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:12 am

yeah Blip I noticed that post too. it might be useful.
I also made a thread on L4DMaps.com with questions about this nav issue because if you have to wait for someone to help you spontaneously, you can wait for a long time.
I also posted a question about the info_zombie_spawner (if anyone knows the reply to my last question about the AIDir and info_zombie_spawner, feel free to tell me)

If you're interested to see what replies I get for the nav problem Nipper, here is the thread:
http://forum.l4dmaps.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1419
might also be related:
http://forum.l4dmaps.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1306
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Re: Night Terror - A j2 l4d campaign - beta 1 and beyond

Post by NIPPER » Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:26 am

don't try to explain the theme :wink:
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Re: Night Terror - A j2 l4d campaign - beta 1 and beyond

Post by Hellboy » Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:29 am

NIPPER wrote:don't try to explain the theme :wink:
People SHOULD get it, it's not that difficult to understand if you're at all observant in the safe rooms.
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Re: Night Terror - A j2 l4d campaign - beta 1 and beyond

Post by joe » Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:25 pm

it's more fun for players if you explain it. otherwise it just seems like a bunch of random maps stuck together
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Re: Night Terror - A j2 l4d campaign - beta 1 and beyond

Post by NIPPER » Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:42 pm

I think for the navs what I need to do is make sure the infected always have a way through the entire map. That's the explanation that makes the most sense to me.
it's more fun for players if you explain it. otherwise it just seems like a bunch of random maps stuck together
We've already posted the plan so it should be a little more obvious in the next beta(s) but I'm saying don't write an "official explanation" on forums.

It doesn't make sense yet anyway because the ending escape is just a placeholder.
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Re: Night Terror - A j2 l4d campaign - beta 1 and beyond

Post by alias » Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:36 pm

I played it with ammo and boo (yes i was one of the players he mentioned) and i liked the campaign. There wasnt realy a storyline but i didnt realy care because each map is soo diffirent that its clear that each stage has its own story/theme. I dont mind that it are random maps stuck together, i prefer good gameplay (i have seen some which are well connected but fail in gameplay because of that).

Anyway my comments/problems about the campaign (excluding the nav problems ofc unless they are new ones)

All nipper maps:
- Lack of items, for advanced its playable but on expert its as good as impossible
- I didnt notice alot of respawn lockers. Especialy close to crecendos they are needed.

Part 1:
- At the start you are frozen for a few seconds but you can get swarmed by hordes already.
- The door of the house with the crecendo has an elevator sound for the crecendo, should be more like a grate one.
- For a first part its quite long plus the house needs a bit more signs of where to walk as the first time it was quite confusing.
- The forest part was fine, i realy liked it

Part 2:
- 100% perfect except for that nav (which i hope youll manage to fix).

Part 3:
- First crecendo with the book, some pipebomb there would be ideal. molotovs however wont be as its a tank killer. Also, the tank spawn sometimes is bugged... sometimes you only get the horde but no tank and so the door wont open. As alternative have the door also open after a few minutes to ensure the team can proceed if the tank spawn bugged. (happened twice to me already - in both cases we did have the nav error but many times the tank still spawned there)
- Second crecendo at the hall, there is no warning that its coming except from the monster's sound which then is too late. If the T2 weapons get spawned there at least spawn them in front of that event and not somewhere in the middle. Its quite a pain otherwise. I actualy thing you should allways get the T2 weapons there.
- 3rd crecendo at the bridge, loved the tank again but in this case there should be an indication that you have to run over that bridge instead of fighting it. Because of the earlier crecendo i made the mistake to try to kill it (i allmost succeeded though as after the incap i killed it with my pistols)
- By overall the best stage even though you have to get used to the crecendos. It looks great and played great.

Part 4:
- Pills, pills, molotovs, molotovs and pipes.
- Dont know about respawn lockers (thanks to pills you dont die)

Part 5:
- Nice idea of that bed with its clock :)
- Nice funky tunnel as the exit
- It would be nice if everyone had to stand on a huge bed indicating they have to stop sleeping as end :P
- It didnt feel like a placeholder as it actualy makes clear why the maps are randomly connected. You simply are sleeping.

Its a great campaign, definitely going to try beta 2 when its out.
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Re: Night Terror - A j2 l4d campaign - beta 1 and beyond

Post by NIPPER » Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:10 pm

Can someone explain the tank complaint thing to me? Is everyone just over exaggerating or is the director spawning more than one tank?

There should only be two before the infinite tanks at the end. The one in the tomb room and a possible director tank. Yet I've heard multiple people complain about getting 4-5 tanks in the tomb room.

So I guess moria needs to be more difficult, this is the message I'm getting.
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Re: Night Terror - A j2 l4d campaign - beta 1 and beyond

Post by Dr.Boo » Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:24 pm

NIPPER wrote:Can someone explain the tank complaint thing to me? Is everyone just over exaggerating or is the director spawning more than one tank?
I've always had only one tank in the tomb room. The problem with that one is that sometimes for some reason it won't appear which prevents the cracked wall from ever opening.
Best thing you can do IMO is have the wall open lets say 20 seconds after you spawn the Tank (with a timer) and don't make it dependent on the death of the Tank. If players are stuck in that room for 20 seconds after the Tank appears, believe me, they'll have to fight it.

About the multiple Tanks thing... ruling out the infinite Tanks at the end, the most I ever had is 2. The tomb room one and one AI Dir one.
People just don't seem to understand you have to rush at the end and not fight those assholes because yes, if you keep fighting them, you can get 5-6 Tanks or more if you don't die.

I've never had more than one Tank in the tomb room or anywhere else simultaneously. Except at the end once I think but if you make a dash for the bridge, you should be fine.

People are also frustrated that they don't get any items before the Tomb room

MORE difficult? No I think people say it's fine now, but simply give them a better chance by placing one pipe or molotov somewhere early in the map. And maybe make the Tier 2 guns a bit easier to find. For the rest I think it's fine. If people understand you have to rush at the end, it's fine.
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Re: Night Terror - A j2 l4d campaign - beta 1 and beyond

Post by AMMO » Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:37 pm

NIPPER wrote:Can someone explain the tank complaint thing to me? Is everyone just over exaggerating or is the director spawning more than one tank?
Occasionally even without the nav bug present, a tank will spawn before even hitting the book. Once you kill this tank, the wall doesn't open and the tank that is supposed to come when you hit the book doesn't, so you can't proceed.
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Re: Night Terror - A j2 l4d campaign - beta 1 and beyond

Post by NIPPER » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:30 pm

I swear I've seen a tank in there before the event and it didn't effect the "cave troll" spawn. If it does that would mean that the forced zombies do effect the director.
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Re: Night Terror - A j2 l4d campaign - beta 1 and beyond

Post by Dr.Boo » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:51 pm

NIPPER wrote:I swear I've seen a tank in there before the event and it didn't effect the "cave troll" spawn. If it does that would mean that the forced zombies do effect the director.
I think forced zombies does affect the AI dir. I haven't seen a tank in my map since I added those forced special infected spawns :(
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Re: Night Terror - A j2 l4d campaign - beta 1 and beyond

Post by Cc_Hairy » Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:50 pm

cant play it on this laptop even with a tethered g1
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Re: Night Terror - A j2 l4d campaign - beta 1 and beyond

Post by NIPPER » Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:00 pm

I sorta fixed moria. I used a combination of new infected-only paths and func_nav_blockers. Don't know exactly what fixed it but I guess I'll try the same with haunts. I still saw the nav flow error in console at some point during the map but I killed myself multiple times and never saw the error pop-up at map start.
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Re: Night Terror - A j2 l4d campaign - beta 1 and beyond

Post by AMMO » Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:08 pm

:D
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