A few words regarding in-game harassment...

[Nightwolf]

I always threaten to turn the server around

Also pork bun FU, and you too hippie. One thing that does bug me is that when people who dont know them or havent played with my friends at all just come in and start saying that stuff as if they know them.

I have noticed the tendencies to pick on young player in the past, I always told them either your tolerable to every group meaning age, gender, race, etc or your out of here.

[dyl1138]

VIEW CONTENT:

Speaking as one of those who would need to apply for a reserved slot and go through this process, I support this 100%. Its exclusionary effect is, in my opinion, very limited.

Sure, its limited... to 100% of the new players. If only 5% of the new players are trolling, why should we auto-mute 100% of the players? That is not very fair. New players should be given the benefit of the doubt.

I agree with Pork Bun's view in that it will just take more proactive moderation by the admins. We don't need a computer system to take care of the problem.

If it were 5%, we could easily handle the problem. The problem is that it's more like 80% of new players are doing it. I've only seen this done once (I'm sure it's been done more than once), but on Minecraft when chat was to spammy, we had "quiet time." We could do this more frequently.

If the mic/ all-talk situation is out of hand, then there either needs to be less people, more mic channels, or fewer people able to talk in order to change this.
Admin presence has simply not worked in most other situations. To refer back to the Minecraft servers, the influx of players was too much to effectively train the community to behave themselves with regards to a CHAT BAR, must less an actual voice chat channel. There were several methods the admins implemented, and presence alone is not enough by far. This was with private 1 on 1 communication abilities in place. To be fair, the average Minecraft player is considerably younger than the average TF2 player with a microphone.
Increased admin intervention has a noticeable effect, both good and bad, but is not reliable. However, it would be wise to try other methods before resorting to changing server settings/implementing new plugins, and it might just be that the tf2 servers will benefit enough from an increased admin presence. As for the idea of more mic channels, this WILL alienate people beyond what should be seen as acceptable and will damage the community.
The time for the community to turn this downward trend around through encouraging good behavior is gone, as the server pop. continues to increase to the point where players feel disinclined to remind others of the customs of using the all-talk channel unless they are a well-known part of the community. New players rarely, if ever, insist that other new players should be more respectful. The people will not change themselves, as banning someone doesn't really set much of an example for someone who joins after the fact, so there is little to no persuasion towards appropriate behavior there either. I do not think that giving people the benefit of the doubt in this case will net any positive result, as it does not change the current system, which has been shown as temporarily flawed.

tl;dr- discussing the various actions that can be taken

And now for me to completely discredit what I have just put out there in the hide box above.

1. We are here to have fun. If at any time you are ruining the fun, you will be dealt with.

Ruining the fun includes: cheating, exploiting, bad sportsmanship, spamming, being a jerk, and anything else that makes people leave the server. You will be banned extremely fast for running off the playerbase. If you fail to remember anything else about the rules, remember this. It is the cornerstone for everything joe.to.

2. Control yourself when communicating with the players on the server and refrain from spamming voice or chat. There are many younger players that frequent our servers. Be respectful when you choose to speak.

These are the first two rules. They put the responsibility for building a tolerant and responsible community on THE COMMUNITY, not just the admins. The admins have been doing their part, and could very well attempt to fix this problem with a number of solutions. These rules are in place to maintain the desired atmosphere for joe.to, and constricting the atmosphere goes against the purpose of these very guidelines and the people who they are intended for.
/rant
/mic-drop

[Johnny5072]

Let me just say this. I think the admins need to make the hard call and figure out a way for new players to not be able to use voice chat until they are given reserved or another system in which they learn the rules and are able to contribute to the conversation.

Second, until this problem gets solved, I think the rest of us "regulars" need to curb and/or limit the joking around and or offensive speech on the server. We are as much to blame for this as the new folks who try to pattern their behavior after us.

Cool it with the random expletives and random spew of inane crap. Stop typing expletives in the chat channel, looking at you Jericho. Knock off the name calling and random gutter spew unless you feel that everyone knows your intentions and meaning.

These guys/gals are trying to fit in to the J2 community. If we act like this, they are going to pattern their behavior after it.

If you want the server's attitudes and play styles to change it can start with us acting a little smarter with folks we don't know and classing up the joint a little until things get back under control.

Also, if you have been playing here for a while, even though you may not be an admin, you know the rules. Don't be the player that contributes to the problem. You don't have to be the server police, but warn other players that they are violating the rules and are ruining things for everyone else. If they throw you attitude, take responsibility for your gaming experience and get on IRC and get an admin on the server.

J2 has rules and we need to be accountable to them as regulars just like the new players. The folks coming in are acting in direct reflection to how we act. Of course there are exceptions, but you get the idea.

J2 if you want a better server, Take responsibility for the server you play in.

-Johnny5

[Texasbabymunch]

Was it toejamy1212 who was made fun of originally?

[Bun]

Was it toejamy1212 who was made fun of originally?

No. Literally ALL the new kids who use their mics.

[Hippie of doom]

Let me just say this. I think the admins need to make the hard call and figure out a way for new players to not be able to use voice chat until they are given reserved or another system in which they learn the rules and are able to contribute to the conversation.

Second, until this problem gets solved, I think the rest of us "regulars" need to curb and/or limit the joking around and or offensive speech on the server. We are as much to blame for this as the new folks who try to pattern their behavior after us.

Cool it with the random expletives and random spew of inane crap. Stop typing expletives in the chat channel, looking at you Jericho. Knock off the name calling and random gutter spew unless you feel that everyone knows your intentions and meaning.

These guys/gals are trying to fit in to the J2 community. If we act like this, they are going to pattern their behavior after it.

If you want the server's attitudes and play styles to change it can start with us acting a little smarter with folks we don't know and classing up the joint a little until things get back under control.

Also, if you have been playing here for a while, even though you may not be an admin, you know the rules. Don't be the player that contributes to the problem. You don't have to be the server police, but warn other players that they are violating the rules and are ruining things for everyone else. If they throw you attitude, take responsibility for your gaming experience and get on IRC and get an admin on the server.

J2 has rules and we need to be accountable to them as regulars just like the new players. The folks coming in are acting in direct reflection to how we act. Of course there are exceptions, but you get the idea.

J2 if you want a better server, Take responsibility for the server you play in.

-Johnny5

well said johnny5

[Shocky]

Let me just say this. I think the admins need to make the hard call and figure out a way for new players to not be able to use voice chat until they are given reserved or another system in which they learn the rules and are able to contribute to the conversation.

Second, until this problem gets solved, I think the rest of us "regulars" need to curb and/or limit the joking around and or offensive speech on the server. We are as much to blame for this as the new folks who try to pattern their behavior after us.

Cool it with the random expletives and random spew of inane crap. Stop typing expletives in the chat channel, looking at you Jericho. Knock off the name calling and random gutter spew unless you feel that everyone knows your intentions and meaning.

These guys/gals are trying to fit in to the J2 community. If we act like this, they are going to pattern their behavior after it.

If you want the server's attitudes and play styles to change it can start with us acting a little smarter with folks we don't know and classing up the joint a little until things get back under control.

Also, if you have been playing here for a while, even though you may not be an admin, you know the rules. Don't be the player that contributes to the problem. You don't have to be the server police, but warn other players that they are violating the rules and are ruining things for everyone else. If they throw you attitude, take responsibility for your gaming experience and get on IRC and get an admin on the server.

J2 has rules and we need to be accountable to them as regulars just like the new players. The folks coming in are acting in direct reflection to how we act. Of course there are exceptions, but you get the idea.

J2 if you want a better server, Take responsibility for the server you play in.

-Johnny5

I like the idea of a reserved mic system. Could be beneficial, though I doubt many people would back it up since some may complain about it. Over all though, smart idea.

[Maha]

There's always gonna be someone who disagrees but I'd say the pros outweigh the cons in this suggestion.

[Mastermind1011]

Holy shit, just had a great idea, though I don't know how feasible it is: people are auto-gagged if they are talking for more than X seconds in a Y second interval. So, in practice, if your mic key is held down for more than 20 seconds in the last 30, you get gagged for the next 30 second interval.

This doesn't fix people being dicks, but it does clear out some of the spam we get from new people. It'll also be teaching people that get auto-gagged that maybe they should talk less, and hopefully they'll fix themselves.

I like Johnny's suggestion a lot, as well. I'm just throwing out another idea that would require less active maintenance from the admins.

[Hippie of doom]

Holy shit, just had a great idea, though I don't know how feasible it is: people are auto-gagged if they are talking for more than X seconds in a Y second interval. So, in practice, if your mic key is held down for more than 20 seconds in the last 30, you get gagged for the next 30 second interval.

This doesn't fix people being dicks, but it does clear out some of the spam we get from new people. It'll also be teaching people that get auto-gagged that maybe they should talk less, and hopefully they'll fix themselves.

I like Johnny's suggestion a lot, as well. I'm just throwing out another idea that would require less active maintenance from the admins.

I know that works for trying to play music if you are not a reserved slot holder. I think this may be the solution for now anyways.

[Eviltechie]

This all sounds very odd to me. Probationary periods for mic use sound like a good way to run new players off. What's wrong with a liberal application of mute? Not having a microphone can be a huge detriment to game play. There is a huge difference between pressing the spy button and yelling out "spy behind you pork bun".

The biggest issue I seem to have noticed recently is that a few days ago there was an unnecessary amount of trading going on. That and people who have their mics turned up. In both cases, a few words from the admin usually set them straight.

[loafozard]

This all sounds very odd to me. Probationary periods for mic use sound like a good way to run new players off. What's wrong with a liberal application of mute? Not having a microphone can be a huge detriment to game play. There is a huge difference between pressing the spy button and yelling out "spy behind you pork bun".

The biggest issue I seem to have noticed recently is that a few days ago there was an unnecessary amount of trading going on. That and people who have their mics turned up. In both cases, a few words from the admin usually set them straight.

Well said. This is easier and faster than having to implement a new system and it won't scare off newcomers. I know when i first joined the server a couple thirty minute mutes did a lot when it came to how i address and interact with other players on the server and i think its probably the best solution to the current problem.

[Parasyte]

This all sounds very odd to me. Probationary periods for mic use sound like a good way to run new players off. What's wrong with a liberal application of mute? Not having a microphone can be a huge detriment to game play. There is a huge difference between pressing the spy button and yelling out "spy behind you pork bun".

The biggest issue I seem to have noticed recently is that a few days ago there was an unnecessary amount of trading going on. That and people who have their mics turned up. In both cases, a few words from the admin usually set them straight.

Well said. This is easier and faster than having to implement a new system and it won't scare off newcomers. I know when i first joined the server a couple thirty minute mutes did a lot when it came to how i address and interact with other players on the server and i think its probably the best solution to the current problem.

I would never make a suggestion if I thought it would deter new players. I think we are being overly cautious on this issue and falling back into the same routine we go through every 3 months or so: Someone mentions the mic spam, we debate possible solutions, it's decided that no solutions are worth attempting and instead decide that admins should be more proactive, nothing changes, time passes, rinse and repeat...

I'm not trying to be snarky, this dance just gets tiresome and I would really like to see some kind of improvement. We are so worried about running off potential newcomers that we foster an environment that instead runs off the regulars and veterans. Who's going to care about newcomers when there's no one left to keep the server worth playing on? Don't get me wrong, a lot of the new folk are great, but I've seen what happens to the server when it's full of random players and no regulars; it's just chaos and it does NOT encourage anyone to stay for long.

Players know within 10 minutes of playing on a server if they want to come back; a probation period will not affect that for the majority of people worth keeping around. If a server is good, players will stay regardless. Just make it a 4-hour probation and most players would knock that out in an evening. It will give them time to learn policy and see that we have zero tolerance for idiots. It would also help to mediate the flow of new voices into the dialogue. The majority of people who have commented so far (including some of the new folk who would be affected) are in favor of some kind of mic probation, is it not worth a try? We can track usage metrics for the server, right? If we see a decline of new players or return players then we can go back to the current Wild-West-all-talk-free-for-all bonanza that we all love.

[Texasbabymunch]

This all sounds very odd to me. Probationary periods for mic use sound like a good way to run new players off. What's wrong with a liberal application of mute? Not having a microphone can be a huge detriment to game play. There is a huge difference between pressing the spy button and yelling out "spy behind you pork bun".

The biggest issue I seem to have noticed recently is that a few days ago there was an unnecessary amount of trading going on. That and people who have their mics turned up. In both cases, a few words from the admin usually set them straight.

Well said. This is easier and faster than having to implement a new system and it won't scare off newcomers. I know when i first joined the server a couple thirty minute mutes did a lot when it came to how i address and interact with other players on the server and i think its probably the best solution to the current problem.

I would never make a suggestion if I thought it would deter new players. I think we are being overly cautious on this issue and falling back into the same routine we go through every 3 months or so: Someone mentions the mic spam, we debate possible solutions, it's decided that no solutions are worth attempting and instead decide that admins should be more proactive, nothing changes, time passes, rinse and repeat...

I'm not trying to be snarky, this dance just gets tiresome and I would really like to see some kind of improvement. We are so worried about running off potential newcomers that we foster an environment that instead runs off the regulars and veterans. Who's going to care about newcomers when there's no one left to keep the server worth playing on? Don't get me wrong, a lot of the new folk are great, but I've seen what happens to the server when it's full of random players and no regulars; it's just chaos and it does NOT encourage anyone to stay for long.

Players know within 10 minutes of playing on a server if they want to come back; a probation period will not affect that for the majority of people worth keeping around. If a server is good, players will stay regardless. Just make it a 4-hour probation and most players would knock that out in an evening. It will give them time to learn policy and see that we have zero tolerance for idiots. It would also help to mediate the flow of new voices into the dialogue. The majority of people who have commented so far (including some of the new folk who would be affected) are in favor of some kind of mic probation, is it not worth a try? We can track usage metrics for the server, right? If we see a decline of new players or return players then we can go back to the current Wild-West-all-talk-free-for-all bonanza that we all love.

This is a great idea! I think four hours is a sweet spot.

[A Ninja]

Add more (active and competent) admins. Bam problem solved.