Let's get rid of double overheal

[Bun]

You should ignore Helpful. He team stacks just to pocket heavy mains. Also some heavy mains don't know how to tone down their skill level when there's < 8 players on the server, which has the opposite effect on "help populate the server".

Instead of having like 10+ pages of discussions on change and have nothing done in the end, why don't we just try it out for a couple weeks? It's not hard to change a couple settings on the server. If there are a lot of complaints then change it back to what it was before. Won't hurt to try, unless people really want to win all the time.

My 2 cents. Take it or leave it.

[Helpful]

"In normal, non-modified TF2, medic is the most important class."

That may be true, but when you look at all the people that play medic (lul), clearly they don't care and need an incentive. Like a heavy main, or more overheal.

"Does anyone else remember that time Valve used the TF2 beta to test things? And how they figured they'd test how the game would work out if every class had double health?"

If were going to talk about Valve balance we need to keep in mind that they balanced for 24 player teams and not 32, even though friendly fire cuts down on the spam, there's still more guns than intended, and more people to heal. I'm not aware of these tests in particular, but I would figure that Valve would think there would be more medics on teams, and because teams have 0-1 medics on them and more people to heal, double overheal helps deal with the under population problem by letting medics heal people before a fight and not during one.

"Look, the real problem is heavy with double overheal."

git gud.

but seriously, kill the medic



EDIT: I agree that surviving fully charged head shots is pretty wtf though

EDIT2: the ending seems a bit antagonistic, and I apologize for that, but it really is the best way to deal with heavy medic combos.

[Mastermind1011]

Bunch of bullshit

No.

[rottencheeseCA]

You should ignore Helpful. He team stacks just to pocket heavy mains. Also some heavy mains don't know how to tone down their skill level when there's < 8 players on the server, which has the opposite effect on "help populate the server".

Instead of having like 10+ pages of discussions on change and have nothing done in the end, why don't we just try it out for a couple weeks? It's not hard to change a couple settings on the server. If there are a lot of complaints then change it back to what it was before. Won't hurt to try, unless people really want to win all the time.

My 2 cents. Take it or leave it.

That's a great idea. If there really is an extreme increase in unintentional team kills, we can start looking for a new solution.

[dmitri ravinoff]

As much as I love playing medic, it would be interesting to change the overheal and see what happens. I think when we really get going 16 v 16 it's a useful balance mechanic to survive spam (which ff does cut down on some but not completely). For 12 v 12 and smaller, a heavy medic pair can fucking wreck everything until a spy or persistent sniper comes along. That's not balanced, and I can see where that should be changed. I think it's a good idea to mess around with overheal. (300% overheal lol?)

[Ian7]

Mastermind is a jackass don't listen to him.
IF IT AINT BROKE DONT FIX IT

[Mastermind1011]

Mastermind is a jackass don't listen to him.
IF IT AINT BROKE DONT FIX IT

Dawg I just explained how it was broken. IT BROKE FIX IT.

[Ian7]

But you're wrong. It's not broke.
Come on Dad

[Bun]

There should be an option in the poll: "let's try it for a week or two".

[Mastermind1011]

I feel that should probably be a separate poll, as this one is already splintered into two yes's and a no. We add a 4th "maybe" option and then public opinion starts to get a bit unreadable.

[loafozard]

How about we look at this from the perspective of a Regular over-healed heavies worst nightmare; a fully charged sniper shot.

I was playing on some other servers cause tf4 can be quite meh and i was wrecking these over-healed heavies with full charged shots like i was shooting fish in a barrel. I believe the double overheal should stick and if possible be lowered if there are less than 24 people on the server. With the 32 player count heavies should be more of a challenge that can be easily countered by a little bit of team play whereas with the smaller player count a heavy should have to rely more on his own skill and less on his damn pocket medic.

TL;DR make it to where the overheal is lowered depending on the player count.

[Parasyte]

Some points for consideration...

1. I've said it before: I would be fine with setting the overheal to default. Either way works for me; I know how to adjust my gameplay to compensate for lower max health, but remember that...
2. ...everyone else will have lower max health, too, and will be less of a potential threat for heavies.
3. The overheal isn't double the default level, but people often speak like it is. It's 50% above the default, not twice as much. And that overheal does help to re-balance gameplay a bit because...
4. ...we are a 32 player server with friendly fire on; there is a lot of shit to potentially hurt players. The extra overheal helps offset that. With a full server, it's fairly common to see multiple spies/snipers on each team, so...
5. ...while 1 fully charged headshot will not take a fully overhealed heavy down, a second, un-charged headshot from the other sniper will.
6. Loaf is onto something there; having default overheal when ≤24 players and 200% with 25+ players would be dandy. It would allow more flexibility in class selection when there are fewer players on; full overheal with low pop and it's easy for a medic/heavy combo to steamroll.
7. Speaking of which, I was just trying to stress this to people the other night...

   but seriously, kill the medic
   
   

[Ian7]

No cause if we change it for a week or two it will never get changed back because that's the way it works.

[Bun]

We have a number of medics on the server who use the vaccinator. Maybe take that into consideration as well. If you have bullet resistance a full charge on a sniper rifle wouldn't do anything to both the healer and the target being healed. IIRC, a headshot only deals 40 - 50 damage...I think...

There are pros/cons and advantages/disadvantages either way.

[Mastermind1011]

I could argue a few points about combat dynamics, Parasyte, but yeah, now that loaf mentions it, honestly just setting overheal to default for <24 players makes a lot of sense. My problem can be summed up that the doubly overhealed heavy unfairly dominates when faced with only one or two players. When a team only has 6 or 12 players, that description defines most of the encounters that happen. When there's 16 players, that happens a lot less.

Also, Pork, I don't get what you mean by bringing up the Vaccinator and snipers? What are you getting at?