Give TF4 Some Love

Anything dealing with the game Team Fortress 2 or the servers we host for it.
User avatar
A Ninja
Professional Fun Killer
<i>Professional Fun Killer</i>
Posts: 3847
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:36 am
Location: Davis, CA

Give TF4 Some Love

Post by A Ninja » Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:04 pm

As of late, I feel that Joe.to's baby, TF4, has been neglected. I know that TF2 is over 7 years old now, and that there aren't as many new players coming, or new custom maps being released constantly, but TF2 is still a popular game, and I would argue it is the most important aspect of the J2 community currently.

Bring back Silly Sundays (or some other regular server event)
Silly Sundays were a fun weekly event for the community to take a break from normal gameplay. As far as I could tell when they took place, Silly Sundays were quite popular with the players and opened the event opened up new ways to screw around with each other. The main issue that seemed to kill this event was the simple fact that a srstaff member had to be on constantly to enable the plugins for !rtd, which is probably why the event died out; not due to lack of interest, but because it would require a srstaff to constantly enable it for each map, which is obviously tedious for that admin. In the future, hopefully bl4nk could automate that for us when he comes back. As seen in the parentheses, I am also open to other ideas for server events.

New Maps (and reviving old hits)
There aren't exactly dozens of maps coming out each month for tf2 nowadays (at least ones that arent trade/ prop hunt maps), but there are still plenty of custom maps out there for us to try out on the server. I know that quite a few custom maps aren't perfect, or are still a bit early in development, but so what? 7 years ago when tf4 came online, and the earliest custom maps came out, we still added them despite their quality, and we still had fun. Playing maps that aren't perfect is what we signed up for when we started a custom map server, I mean our "official" map is downright terrible, (I'm looking at you, rooftime), but we still love it. Furthermore, how do we expect the custom map community to survive if people don't play their maps to encourage them to continue making them and improving them? I am tired of seeing maps removed or not added because they don't appeal to srstaff that are already largely absent from tf2. In regards to old maps that are on the server but not an option to nominate, all of us need to go back and take a second look at why they are in that position. If a map is off the nominate menu because 1 or 2 admins took issue with it, perhaps we should get more opinions on it from regular players. If a map is off the menu because there are already so many like it, such as 5 point capture maps, maybe we should rotate them regularly to fix that.

*side note for this part, I really wish we could find a way to get a fresh generation of j2 mappers for tf2

New "Recently Added" Tab
To build off of the previous point, I feel the nominate menu should include a "recently added" tab to bring attention to new maps that were added/revived on the server to help players find something new.

Make use of new gamemodes
Now, this one I'm not sure about, but I feel at the very least it warrants some debate. Recently valve has added a few new ways to play the game, and the 2 I'm going to focus on are the new mann up mode, and kart racing. In regards to mann up mode, I see no reason to keep these maps off the nominate list. In regards to the kart racing maps that have come out recently, apparently there are issues with messing up the server that are experienced with arena maps as well. Perhaps there is a plugin available, or bl4nk could be asked nicely to make one available, that would solve this? These maps are too entertaining, regardless of their stupidity, to be ignored.

On Adminstration
Now, before I go into this part I just want to say that I appreciate the srstaff and all the work they have done over the years. That being said, I feel like the srstaff seemed to have largely lost touch with the playerbase they maintain on tf4. Of the 16 srstaff listing in the forum group, 7-8 of them have largely disappeared from the community, and I only ever really see Eviltechie or mbaxter on the server on a semiregular basis. I understand that there is coding and plugin fixing that goes on behind the scenes, and I don't want to appear ungrateful for that, I just feel that other aspects of the server could be worked on as well. Our TF2 server is what keeps the community alive today, and just as importantly, the people who play on it are the main sources of donations that keep our infrastructure alive. Now that we have no other servers (RIP minecraft), I feel the srstaff should focus more on maintaining and even growing our tf2 community. If a srstaff member doesn't have time any more, or has lost interest in the game, that is totally fine, it happens and I'm not going to complain about that. What I will complain about is allowing the server to stagnate because you lost interest and didn't allow other people more interested to help instead.

The Community as a Whole
This last part takes a look at the bigger picture outside of tf4, and how it relates to the J2 community. Back when joe was around, the tf2 server had a clear function; to draw people to the forums where we can all talk with each other and discuss things and have a good time. In this way, team fortress itself was simply a bonding point to get the ball rolling. The fact that the server was unique meant that it brought unique players outside of the standard srs bsns tf2 player that would frequent a more mainstream server. I feel like we have lost quite a bit of that connection since joe left. This isn't just to criticize administrators, as it is an aging game after all. I feel that the j2 community as a whole should put more effort into bringing new tf4 regulars into the wider joe.to community, beyond simply coming to the forums to sign up for a reserved slot. Even if people disagree with my comments, I hope at the very least this generates a discussion for new ways to liven up the server and the community.

I want to end on a positive note, so I'll say this. Of all the TF2 communities I have seen or been a part of, none have been as resilient as J2. I don't think there is any other server out there that has regular players populating the server on their own initiative so early in the day, and willing to endure so many maps that would clear out other servers. I think the reason for this is what I alluded to earlier, and that is that our server attracts types of players you don't find anywhere else. I think that is a testament to how good the server is, and a reason for us to want to make it even better.

TLDR: Gimme new maps, fire all admins
Neelpos wrote:but he's A Ninja, he's one of the best fucking snipers on the server, if your evidence doesn't line up prepare to be ridiculed by your inability to differentiate hackers from really fucking good players.
User avatar
Cheddars
Posts: 277
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:05 pm

Re: Give TF4 Some Love

Post by Cheddars » Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:40 pm

Ninja for in-charge-of-map-additions-to-the-tf4-server guy 2015! :toot:
User avatar
MrBlip
It was inevitable.
Posts: 6918
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 9:55 pm
Location: Narshe

Re: Give TF4 Some Love

Post by MrBlip » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:19 pm

Cheddars wrote:Ninja for in-charge-of-map-additions-to-the-tf4-server guy 2015! :toot:
its a very shitty job if you have anything less than a lot of free time and a good internet connection
A Ninja wrote:New "Recently Added" Tab
To build off of the previous point, I feel the nominate menu should include a "recently added" tab to bring attention to new maps that were added/revived on the server to help players find something new.
I'd rather see two submenus at most: official maps and custom maps. If people want to see what new maps have been added, they can come check the forums, as well as see the current up to date rotation in the custom map request thread, assuming someone actually buckles down and keeps that shit updated (which, again, is an incredibly shitty job)
A Ninja wrote:Make use of new gamemodes
Now, this one I'm not sure about, but I feel at the very least it warrants some debate. Recently valve has added a few new ways to play the game, and the 2 I'm going to focus on are the new mann up mode, and kart racing. In regards to mann up mode, I see no reason to keep these maps off the nominate list. In regards to the kart racing maps that have come out recently, apparently there are issues with messing up the server that are experienced with arena maps as well. Perhaps there is a plugin available, or bl4nk could be asked nicely to make one available, that would solve this? These maps are too entertaining, regardless of their stupidity, to be ignored.
I'd be cool if we could have more game modes available like that for the server, but that will honestly require more work on valves part or someone incredibly intelligent here with enough free time. I wish we could all rely on bl4nk like the good ol days but I imagine someone as gifted as him probably has a lot of real life stuff on his plate (imu bl4nk)
9:18 PM - mrblip: im allowed to have my own opinions
9:19 PM - Dr. Doctorpus: no youre not
User avatar
Usernamedoesnotexist
Resident Rule Breaker
Posts: 132
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 4:33 pm
Location: My Computer Chair for all eternity

Re: Give TF4 Some Love

Post by Usernamedoesnotexist » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:28 pm

I personally love tf4. It's the only consistently fun tf2 server that I've ever found. it's not my only server, but It's my main choice. I'd love to get more into the community around the server (and perhaps joe.to overall). I'd love to get to know other joe.to-ers and have a better overall experience.

Just like you said, I got into these forums because to me it seemed like that's where all the real stuff was happening, and I wanted in on that. The forums have been a great place for me to meet other joe.to-ers.
Am I JUST a Username? Or am I MORE than just a Username?

... Nah... I'm just a dude on the internet
Hippie of doom
My bullets love your face!
<font color=#94008a>My bullets love your face!</font>
Posts: 2271
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:55 pm

Re: Give TF4 Some Love

Post by Hippie of doom » Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:49 am

I actually got into this community because i was banned from steamroller for team killing. People were killing me in the tubes you spawn in after you die once during gameplay so i killed them back. I was like BS am i goona stay banned form any game server even if i never come back to play there. I was unbanned and have not left since because of this wonderful community of people i have grown to love (or hate depending)and this awesome game ( i waited 10 years for Tf2). Hell i met my wife pinkle in TF4 as well as many many awesome people. Parasyte flew all the way from the east coast to oregon to a music festival last year that Pinkle and i and my friends go to every year. (he is coming back with his entire family this year) I agree with Ninja. We should do some of these things like bringing back silly sundays to try to pull new players into our web of awesomeness but again life does get in the way and that is fully understandable. i also agree with Blip that those jobs are thankless but they need to be done. (we all miss bl4nk)

If help is needed with testing out new maps to put on the server or testing out some sort on new functionality via a new plugin or whatever, I will totally be happy to help. I just need to know when and where and all of that. This community is very resilient and i have no doubt it will remain that way for a long time but we should be showing love to the catalyst that brings new people into the fold.
Im not random. i just think faster then you.
Image
prolix
Posts: 2278
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2003 6:46 pm

Re: Give TF4 Some Love

Post by prolix » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:03 pm

I've been too busy either with modding minecraft or playing Warframe.
MrBlip wrote:
Cheddars wrote:Ninja for in-charge-of-map-additions-to-the-tf4-server guy 2015! :toot:
its a very shitty job if you have anything less than a lot of free time and a good internet connection
Indeed, I host a few servers on my network so uploading things is a big no-no. I either have to limit my uploads to 1Mbps out of 20 or I hear a lot of bitching.
User avatar
bl4nk
BOOBIES
Posts: 15254
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2003 9:03 pm

Re: Give TF4 Some Love

Post by bl4nk » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:20 pm

Hippie of doom wrote:(we all miss bl4nk)
Still here, but as Ninja has said, I've just mostly lost interest in TF2. I still maintain what I can, and try to improve the server(s) in some ways, but overall my interests lie elsewhere. I've recently been spending more time working on the servers to try to improve them, but lack of time and motivation are affecting how much I get done. Having some people who are dedicated to helping out with the minor tasks (such as rotating maps out, and finding new plugins/game modes/whatever) is not something I'm opposed to in the slightest. The problem is, like has also been mentioned, these tasks can be somewhat menial, and people tend to slack off with their duties. I'm always open to suggestions for how to improve the servers, and I'm (slowly) working on a few things to make our servers more enjoyable.
Image
User avatar
SuperPotato
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:01 pm

Re: Give TF4 Some Love

Post by SuperPotato » Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:31 am

I'm surprised you think TF4's being neglected - Though I don't have access to the raw stats, there are enough "clusters" of TKs by players to show that a new player shows up 1-2 times a week (at least), and sometimes even stays. The server's also pretty full a lot of the time, though understandably as night drifts across the U.S. it slowly empties.

I would agree about the !nominate menu though (and I'd love to see features like !votekick etc. implemented); it's a bit outdated compared to the other servers, I'd say. The most notable features I see missing are a "recently added" category and "recently played" marker (some servers restrict nominating recently played maps, but I'd vote against that). Having a "popular" category would also be nice.

Still, TF4 is a nice place to hang out and unwind. I thoroughly enjoy playing with you all.
User avatar
bl4nk
BOOBIES
Posts: 15254
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2003 9:03 pm

Re: Give TF4 Some Love

Post by bl4nk » Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:40 pm

SuperPotato wrote:I'm surprised you think TF4's being neglected
I mean this from an administrative standpoint.
SuperPotato wrote:Though I don't have access to the raw stats, there are enough "clusters" of TKs by players to show that a new player shows up 1-2 times a week (at least), and sometimes even stays. The server's also pretty full a lot of the time, though understandably as night drifts across the U.S. it slowly empties.
I've created plugins that do in-depth logging with player connections, including play times, map joined on, and lots of player-specific data. I'll have to see about putting together something that can display information regarding new player counts and lengths of play times.
SuperPotato wrote:I would agree about the !nominate menu though (and I'd love to see features like !votekick etc. implemented); it's a bit outdated compared to the other servers, I'd say. The most notable features I see missing are a "recently added" category and "recently played" marker (some servers restrict nominating recently played maps, but I'd vote against that). Having a "popular" category would also be nice.


This is partially what I was getting at. We have lots to offer on our server(s), but don't provide all that we can. I want to make it so we have access to do more than what we can currently, as what we have at the moment will suffice, but there is always room for expansion to make the experience on our server(s) more enjoyable.

SuperPotato wrote:Still, TF4 is a nice place to hang out and unwind. I thoroughly enjoy playing with you all.


I'm glad you enjoy your time here. We strive to make our servers a good place that everyone can enjoy, and although we're not exactly up-to-par with the standards that we would like, we're always looking to improve. We try to cater to all audiences, and at times that can be difficult, but I feel we're at a point where we have a good player base, but need to expand the experience we provide to reach more of an audience that we have yet to tap. Our resources are limited, but we have yet to push the boundaries of what we can do. Only with the accumulated help of the community, along with the support of the admins we have (and will later attain), will we make our servers better.

Like I said previously: We're always open for suggestions as to what to do to the servers. We (the admins) might not be 100% responsive, as there are some matters that might be difficult to touch upon (see: changing the overheal ratio -- you fuckers are so diverse on that subject), but everything is taken into consideration. I personally feel that there isn't that much that is being suggested (and I might just be overlooking some things, and if that's the case, be direct and point it out to me) to improve the servers. I'm one of the longest standing members of this community. I've seen it go through some radical changes, and don't want to see it die any time soon. Perseverance, and determination have kept us alive thus far, and will keep us alive far into the future. Please don't be afraid to share anything that you feel needs to be changed, added, or removed to make our servers better (and if you're too afraid to post it publicly, send me or one of our other Senior Staff a private message with what you think we can do).
Image
User avatar
Renbail
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:50 pm

Re: Give TF4 Some Love

Post by Renbail » Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:37 pm

I really don't care what happens. I've been jumping from server to server, and this one is my current one. Usually the server end up dying or I end up getting banned before I move to another server.

What I think a good simple addition to the server would be the HLStats system along with a link at the forums to weapon/player leader boards for TF4. This is a step into making players join and participate the forums.

As for maps, it will be nice to have extra special maps including Deathwatch only maps.
User avatar
bl4nk
BOOBIES
Posts: 15254
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2003 9:03 pm

Re: Give TF4 Some Love

Post by bl4nk » Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:31 am

Renbail wrote:What I think a good simple addition to the server would be the HLStats system along with a link at the forums to weapon/player leader boards for TF4. This is a step into making players join and participate the forums.
We had a stats system at one point, but shied away from it due to players using it as somewhat of a ranking system. It created too much of a competitive nature that we did't like at the time, but it could be something we might revisit.
Image
User avatar
Eviltechie
Happiness Committee
<b>Happiness Committee</b>
Posts: 4720
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:48 am

Re: Give TF4 Some Love

Post by Eviltechie » Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:33 am

A stats plugin could integrate with the scramble plugin. It would mean that team scrambles are based on the overall skill, rather than just the points they've earned that round.
20:37 <@mbaxter> !crepe
20:37 <@creeper> mbaxter eats a delicious crepe. Suddenly, SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS *KABLOOEY*
20:37 -!- mbaxter was kicked from #minecraft by creeper [Creeper Crepe]
Snugglebear wrote:Not everyone has a conscience.
Avvatar wrote:Welcome to joe.to. Where the men are men, the women are ogled, the children are mocked and we're all assholes. Donate up top.
01:35 <@TheNewt> the game ends when everyone quits

User avatar
MegapiemanPHD
Posts: 112
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:30 am
Contact:

Re: Give TF4 Some Love

Post by MegapiemanPHD » Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:15 am

I've been spending alot of time on TF2maps.net recently as I work on learning how to map for TF2. They run all kinds of contests all of the time and it could be interesting to see if J2 could host a mapping contest. It would help get more maps for the server as well as be good plausibility for J2. Could even run tests for the maps on TF4 to help them get feedback.
And all the girlies say i'm pretty fly (for a white pie)
User avatar
SuperPotato
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:01 pm

Re: Give TF4 Some Love

Post by SuperPotato » Sun Jan 18, 2015 9:51 pm

MegapiemanPHD wrote:I've been spending alot of time on TF2maps.net recently as I work on learning how to map for TF2
I could provide a little help, if you want; I used to be fairly into mapping a while back.
MegapiemanPHD wrote:be good plausibility for J2.
Er, rephrase? That doesn't make too much sense.
MegapiemanPHD wrote:Could even run tests for the maps on TF4 to help them get feedback.
Maybe make it into a day/evening? Once a week do 2 runs of a map (so each side gets to play once) and see how it goes? Might be a neat idea to attract players.
bl4nk wrote:We had a stats system at one point, but shied away from it due to players using it as somewhat of a ranking system. It created too much of a competitive nature that we did't like at the time, but it could be something we might revisit.
I know of only 2 types of stats (that I can remember); one that tracks your overall rank on the servers, and one that just records time played as certain classes or weapons, what the favorite weapon is for a class, etc; unfortunately I don't remember the name of either.
User avatar
Stormatic
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:41 pm

Re: Give TF4 Some Love

Post by Stormatic » Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:01 pm

I love TF4, I didn't think I'd ever enjoy TF2 at first because I liked other games like Call of Duty then Pokemann showed me this server and I haven't really gone to other servers since. I love the customs maps, I like the ones everyone seems to hate like the daytime field trip (and other variants of those breaking the wall maps) and the pokemon victory road(though that opens up the whole beat a dead horse with a stick because everyone talks a crap load about pokemon and then doesnt stop) or Mario kart one to maybe just mess around on with the !rtd on Sundays. Though I suck at posting anything useful or informative on the forums I glance over them (I've neglected you so much in the last couple months, damn you school).

I love unwinding on this server after work or school and things like !rtd are great and awesome but it is tedious to a sradmin who has to be on all the time to do it for us (Thank you to the ones that do!). I'd like to see something like the other suggestions about recently played maps, new maps, etc. If i'm not mistaken there's already something in place that doesnt let us select recently played maps? At the same time the whole rooftime thing, i've seen it come and go so many times off the list because an admin got tired of it being played, but they change it to rooftime later. I've seen some variants of Orange that would be cool to try. Maybe have a master thread with a vote every once in a while for new maps to be rotated in, like hypothetically, "which of these three of six maps would you like to see rotated in this month!" and then if they live maybe keep them under that new tab that people seem to want.

Pokemanns main thing about tf4 is the whole mic spam and sometimes admins let it go on, or seem to join in with it, others put an end to it for a minute by muting and just being like "hey you guys need to stop, etc etc", there was someone on the other night who i believe was fairly new, was asked multiple times to stop playing the music they were because a number of players had asked them to stop and the admin (idk which one) that had told them to stop didn't really do anything else with them and the person continued to play music for a bit after. Maybe admins take a bit more control over the mic spamming (But yeah a simple mute from the tf2 menu solves this too).

I've seen a number of new people come in and go since I started playing tf4 (i think like 2012?), I was bad as can be and didnt play anything besides pyro and I embrance the WM1ness, and now I can play my blackbox/liberty launcher soldier and not worry too much about burtally murdering a teammate because people gave me pointers, and tf4 put up with my bad playing until i got mediocre with it but I'm just basically saying I love this server, the players i've meet are awesome and I don't wanna see the server die of neglect or something like that, while there are minor things re- amp it again with stuff like silly sunday would be awesome (I was beyond happy to get on after i started playing on sundays when i learned you guys had something like !rtd because it's funny to watch a teammate on drugs, or blow up out of no where.
Nothing is true, everything is permitted.
Post Reply