A few words regarding in-game harassment...

[Bun]

(Was he a good sniper?)

Define "good". He's slow and usually gets kills with a half - full charged rifle. We all have our own style of playing though.

If you boast about headshotting someone who just walked out from behind a wall, while you have a rifle that is charged then yea...of course it's easy to get kills. All you need to do is point and click and not have to worry if you've got enough power to kill.

That's not the point of this thread and the whole "new players are being annoying" thing though.

[Parasyte]

i dont feel that a restriction is a good idea because it has a HUGE possibility of keeping a person from integrating in to the community.

I defer to dyl1138:

Speaking as one of those who would need to apply for a reserved slot and go through this process, I support this 100%. Its exclusionary effect is, in my opinion, very limited.

A key part in to getting to know other people who play on a server is building up a reputation with the regulars and making a name for yourself.

These people would still be able to talk in chat. Besides that, a reputation can be quickly made by how someone plays with others. You could almost say almost say that actions speak louder than words... huh, that should be a quote or something...

You cant learn how to talk to certain people just based off of listening to a conversation others are having

I did and it seems to have worked out well enough. As I mentioned, I waited months and the payback was immediate. I knew names, tendencies, attitudes, preferences and - most importantly - protocol.

So, instead of a trial period there may be a simpler solution. Change the rules and the server introduction screen so people are more likely to read them and follow them. Currently its just a boring wall of text that nobody really cares about. This would also help solve the constant "I didnt know this server was friendly fire" I hear when new people get on. Also, admins need to be more willing to enforce temporary mutes on players that are being attention whores and mic spammers. thirty minute mute can go a long way, and can help weed out the players who are truly dedicated to playing and interacting with the regulars on the server.

The MOTD will never be the solution for anything. People have been conditioned to ignore them if they haven't already turned them off. And I don't think a good solution is expecting the admins to do more work, no offense to the admins. They all have lives and this is a volunteer effort. We should be finding ways to make their job easier and this would most certainly do that.

Maybe it isn't 30 days, maybe it's a set number of hours. That way, if a new player chooses to burn through their probationary period in a week they can get voice access sooner. Regardless, I think those opposed to this idea are just panicking; I do not believe this would be a deterrent to new players. Over the past week I've seen more than one person say that they love the server from just being there and listening to the conversations. These are people who have become regulars without ever using the voice-chat.

[Bun]

These are people who have become regulars without ever using the voice-chat.

That's me for the last 5 - 6 years up until late 2012 - early 2013.

Had to bold that and color. :3

I remember when Hippie first heard my voice. He was in love. He said I had the voice of a God.

I hope he sees this...bwahahahahaha!

[Tzeryushi]

It's really interesting to me that some of these people can be so consistently obnoxious in the server. The first time I joined it was kind of an intimidating atmosphere, what with all the regulars speaking with such familiarity to one another. Personally, I felt automatically compelled to stay silent and observe for a while to try to acclimate myself to the environment. Still, even after 3/4 of a year or so of being on the server, I usually only dare to pick up my mic when there are only a few people on-even then I feel uneasy.

Even though I may be a bit of a particular case as far as judging other peoples' ability to adjust, I think it's an excellent idea to put some preliminary restrictions on voice chat. I think it would work well to attempt to instill the atmosphere of 'privilege through learning', so to speak, that I experienced. Unless we're dealing with the most stubborn airheads imaginable, time-based restrictions would, if nothing else, weed out the players who are too impatient to give the server some time.

As far as dealing with how it should be implemented, I think an hours prerequisite like Parasyte brought up would work the best, at least for making sure people spend some real time on the server. Maybe slap the requirement onto the MOTD on the off chance someone pays attention to it, or if possible, have a message that pops up with some info if they try to use voice chat just so it won't leave them in the dark as to why they can't speak. Something else that might be interesting to consider, assuming it's possible, would be to allow people who have not fulfilled the requirement to be able to talk if there is only an x amount of people on, to keep the server a little more interesting in the off hours. This would also allow them to get to know some people when the server isn't quite to crowded and rowdy. Might be a bit too complex to implement, though.

Whatever solution is decided upon, I don't believe outright permabanning at this point is a solid solution. There are lots of people who come from lots of different backgrounds that might get on the server, and without proper experience, might not even consider that their behavior is rude or could be considered harassment to others. The permabanning could come after their period of silence, should they choose to act like asses.

[loafozard]

I like the idea of a set number of hours far better than a thirty day thing. It may not work the same, but say an eight or ten hour probationary period might prove to be pretty beneficial to the voice chat.

I do think that, in the case of harassment and mic spam (the original intent of this thread), that short mutes and temp bans need to be used on players that an admin deems as harmful to the friendly vibe of the voice chat.

[jmtokx]

That's not the point of this thread and the whole "new players are being annoying" thing though.

Yeah, I was just curious.

[GustavG]

Wait i kind of dont understand this
I mean i know why this becomes a ban its a bad thing
but what type of harassment are you talking about?
So if say "God fucking dammit PorkBun fuck off" is that gonna count as hassment course you know i tend to do that alot when you are sniping
love you btw

[Hippie of doom]

Wait i kind of dont understand this
I mean i know why this becomes a ban its a bad thing
but what type of harassment are you talking about?
So if say "God fucking dammit PorkBun fuck off" is that gonna count as hassment course you know i tend to do that alot when you are sniping
love you btw

No that would not be considered harassment in my eyes.

I remember when Hippie first heard my voice. He was in love. He said I had the voice of a God.

I hope he sees this...bwahahahahaha!

mmmmmmmmmmmmm sooooo sexy. When i am making love to my wife i think about your voice pork bun. (to much?)

[Bun]

Wait i kind of dont understand this
I mean i know why this becomes a ban its a bad thing
but what type of harassment are you talking about?
So if say "God fucking dammit PorkBun fuck off" is that gonna count as hassment course you know i tend to do that alot when you are sniping
love you btw

No, that's not harassment, but you really need to think and construct a sentence in your head before you speak. 95% of the time I have no idea what you're saying and I'm not the only one who doesn't understand you. Everyone just wants to say something witty in hopes that someone is recording. I learned to drown you out sometimes cause it never seems important and I barely understand what's coming out of your mouth. No offense, but this needs to be said if you want someone to change their ways, since you never got any of the hints posted on the forums or in-game about trying too hard to fit in. You do have a potty mouth and that's mostly what I hear in voice chat. There's nothing wrong with that, but pablo had a really bad potty mouth when he joined and all he did was dish out insults, and I pointed it out. It gets annoying when all you do is curse in voice chat and that's all you say, every single time you play on the server. He tried really hard to not curse after I pointed it out and look at him now. He's pretty calm and cool now.

I know most of this stuff I'm posting in this thread might seem mean to some people, but I feel like this has to be said if you sincerely want someone/people to change some of their ways. Nobody is perfect, but communicating solves problems and everyone in the community can usually benefit from it. i.e. lessen mic spam.

This thread might be a nice read regarding mic spam and several other points: http://forums.joe.to/viewtopic.php?f=185&t=71544

[Bun]

A little off topic, but I'm gonna put this out there.

So the server was filled with semi-new people. A lot of them were going on and off about the same shit. "Pork Bun I hate you", "FU Pork", etc. Some of them don't mean it and some are actually full of butthurt.

According to Chester, "what was once an art is now lost because of the DR", "he's like any other spy; shit". Well, sorry to hear buddy, but don't hate the player, take it up with Valve. I just simply don't understand why some people get so mad over a video game. Some people understand that it's not my fault I know how to play certain classes. I play a lot of sniper and spy because I find those are the two most challenging classes (no offense, but personally, that's what I think) and several other classes, like the engineer, just bore me. Pyro and heavy is just like W + M1 + pocket medic = OP.

*Several people were showing their hate and what-not, though it wasn't that serious, but from what people type in the past, I knew who the butthurt ones are*

Here's a snippet of how it went:

*This was me being serious as some people simply don't understand and put the blame on others.*
2014-01-04 16:23:40 BLU Weeman well its not his fault you suck at the game
2014-01-04 16:24:21 RED Pork Bun If you wanna get good, be humble
2014-01-04 16:24:25 RED Pork Bun And less crying
2014-01-04 16:24:30 RED Pork Bun And less butthurtism
2014-01-04 16:25:17 RED Pork Bun There'll always be someone above you and someone below you, whether it's about money, bodybuilding, whatever you do in life
2014-01-04 16:25:22 RED Pork Bun Just be humble

That's all I wanted to put out there for those who have an ego, as I've mentioned in a post yesterday, but yea...just thought I'd get the message out there. Not exactly related to the topic, but the behavior is somewhat the same. I've bolded the important line. After I typed this, the whole "FU/Hate" just died down. I'm not offended, in fact, you can feed me your attention all you want, but that's what the voice chat is filled with usually when I'm on and it gets boring.

[Dangit Spongebobby!]

Speaking as one of those who would need to apply for a reserved slot and go through this process, I support this 100%. Its exclusionary effect is, in my opinion, very limited.

Sure, its limited... to 100% of the new players. If only 5% of the new players are trolling, why should we auto-mute 100% of the players? That is not very fair. New players should be given the benefit of the doubt.

I agree with Pork Bun's view in that it will just take more proactive moderation by the admins. We don't need a computer system to take care of the problem.

[Hippie of doom]

A little off topic, but I'm gonna put this out there.

So the server was filled with semi-new people. A lot of them were going on and off about the same shit. "Pork Bun I hate you", "FU Pork", etc. Some of them don't mean it and some are actually full of butthurt.

According to Chester, "what was once an art is now lost because of the DR", "he's like any other spy; shit". Well, sorry to hear buddy, but don't hate the player, take it up with Valve. I just simply don't understand why some people get so mad over a video game. Some people understand that it's not my fault I know how to play certain classes. I play a lot of sniper and spy because I find those are the two most challenging classes (no offense, but personally, that's what I think) and several other classes, like the engineer, just bore me. Pyro and heavy is just like W + M1 + pocket medic = OP.

*Several people were showing their hate and what-not, though it wasn't that serious, but from what people type in the past, I knew who the butthurt ones are*

Here's a snippet of how it went:

*This was me being serious as some people simply don't understand and put the blame on others.*
2014-01-04 16:23:40 BLU Weeman well its not his fault you suck at the game
2014-01-04 16:24:21 RED Pork Bun If you wanna get good, be humble
2014-01-04 16:24:25 RED Pork Bun And less crying
2014-01-04 16:24:30 RED Pork Bun And less butthurtism
2014-01-04 16:25:17 RED Pork Bun There'll always be someone above you and someone below you, whether it's about money, bodybuilding, whatever you do in life
2014-01-04 16:25:22 RED Pork Bun Just be humble

That's all I wanted to put out there for those who have an ego, as I've mentioned in a post yesterday, but yea...just thought I'd get the message out there. Not exactly related to the topic, but the behavior is somewhat the same. I've bolded the important line. After I typed this, the whole "FU/Hate" just died down. I'm not offended, in fact, you can feed me your attention all you want, but that's what the voice chat is filled with usually when I'm on and it gets boring.

feed off of the hate pork bun. lol enjoy it. i would.

[rockerboy]

Speaking as one of those who would need to apply for a reserved slot and go through this process, I support this 100%. Its exclusionary effect is, in my opinion, very limited.

Sure, its limited... to 100% of the new players. If only 5% of the new players are trolling, why should we auto-mute 100% of the players? That is not very fair. New players should be given the benefit of the doubt.

I agree with Pork Bun's view in that it will just take more proactive moderation by the admins. We don't need a computer system to take care of the problem.

If it were 5%, we could easily handle the problem. The problem is that it's more like 80% of new players are doing it. I've only seen this done once (I'm sure it's been done more than once), but on Minecraft when chat was to spammy, we had "quiet time." We could do this more frequently.

[Wolsk]

I used to do "quiet time" several times a day every time I went on TF4.
Granted, I haven't been on in quite a while. :v

[Bun]

I've done "quiet time" a few times. Works, but as soon as you unmute everyone, they go at it again.

It's not fair to those who didn't participate though.