Class limiter

[joe]

i would also like big print in the middle of the screen whenever someone starts capping or touches the flag (attackers) or kills a flag carrier or enemy on the cap point (defenders).

and +10, 25, 50, or 100 points for capping (not sure if that would matter but cant hurt)

and maybe some kind of limited punishment if enemy caps on you, e.g. no shooting for 5 seconds, or enemy team has 100% crits (like at the end of the round) for a few seconds, or you get buried (cant move) or team that caps gets +50hp or something like that or combination of factors like that

[Scarecrow4560]

solve the problem of people not trying to achieve the goal

This problem will never be solved. There will always be people who treat each match as a death match. No matter what plugins you put in place, no matter how many class limiters you install, not everyone will try to achieve a goal.

i would also like big print in the middle of the screen whenever someone starts capping or touches the flag (attackers) or kills a flag carrier or enemy on the cap point (defenders).

and +10, 25, 50, or 100 points for capping (not sure if that would matter but cant hurt)

and maybe some kind of limited punishment if enemy caps on you, e.g. no shooting for 5 seconds, or enemy team has 100% crits (like at the end of the round) for a few seconds, or you get buried (cant move) or team that caps gets +50hp or something like that or combination of factors like that

The idea of showing if someone is capping isn't a bad idea, but having a punishment for the enemy team capping on you doesn't seem like a good idea. If your in the middle of their base about to steal the intel and suddenly get grounded or lose the ability to fire, your screwed and will likely get killed, esspecially if there is a sentry and your a spy.

Turn tf3 into a joe.to goal-based server, mentioning something in the title about extra points for team players. Put in the following changes:
- Make it so only winners get to vote for nextmap OR only a certain fraction of players with the most points or the highest point to play time ratio get to vote (i'm kind of against this suggestion, actually)
- Give enough time between the map vote and the end of the round that every player ends up voting before map change
- Cut point awards for kills in half
- Remove the extra point awards for headshots

Award extra points for:
- Healing a certain amount of health
- Pyros who ignite disguised enemy spies
- Defending a control point
- Being near your own intelligence for a certain amount of time
- Each time a player touches the enemy intelligence

NO class limiters.

This kind of play encourages and awards team players by showing how awesomely team-playing they are in points, and doesn't nerf people who are killing for fun from being able to kill for fun. All it means is that snipers who are playing to be top on the scoreboard won't be top on the scoreboard, but they'll still be able to say they get the most headshots, the most kills, whatever. You'd need to test it for a while to balance points (making sure defending players don't gain points way more quickly than attacking players, medics more or less than other classes, etc.), but it could be pretty awesome.

Basically, people who play deathmatch for points won't be able to, and they shouldn't be able to. People who play deathmatch for fun still can. People who play as a team player get awarded for it, rather than nerfed.

Twine has some great ideas that should really be considered. The only thing that i can see as a problem is that if you are a sniper and you defend your team mates from a spy or something, your not awared for helping out a team mate, but almost punished for protecting a team mate instead of trying to cap intel.

[Twine]

i would also like big print in the middle of the screen whenever someone starts capping or touches the flag (attackers) or kills a flag carrier or enemy on the cap point (defenders).

and +10, 25, 50, or 100 points for capping (not sure if that would matter but cant hurt)

and maybe some kind of limited punishment if enemy caps on you, e.g. no shooting for 5 seconds, or enemy team has 100% crits (like at the end of the round) for a few seconds, or you get buried (cant move) or team that caps gets +50hp or something like that or combination of factors like that

If you're going to put print in, make it fairly unobnoxious. I'd hate having to play with random text appearing all the time. On CTF maps messages like "RED intel will return in 30 seconds" would be very useful, other than that on-screen text would be fairly unnecessary, just an annoyance.

Also, as for ludicrous points on capping, NO. I'd NEVER play on the server if you did that. I like keeping a scoreboard that's moderately non-ludicrous, and I REALLY don't want to reset my scoreboard and lose my record of 80 hours as scout because of some stupid mod. This also goes to any admins using point award commands - DON'T USE THEM ON PLAYERS OTHER THAN YOURSELF. I'm sure you wouldn't be inclined to do it anyways, but some people like seeing what their top scores actually are. I heard of one person who had their score set to 1337 on j2, and if it was me, I'd be quite ticked about it.

The focus of what I was trying to post is that you should NOT have any mods that directly impact gameplay. You should allow people to have the freedom to play how they want, but to reward and attract team players to the server.

A main problem on CTF maps is that you get no points for constantly kamikazeeing for the intelligence, though many of the custom server maps (like gas_kaboom) require it. Simply rewarding 1 point every time the intel is picked up (at a maximum rate of 1 point per minute to avoid exploiting with dropping the intel) would make me much more inclined to go for the intelligence.

(quote)

The idea of showing if someone is capping isn't a bad idea, but having a punishment for the enemy team capping on you doesn't seem like a good idea. If your in the middle of their base about to steal the intel and suddenly get grounded or lose the ability to fire, your screwed and will likely get killed, esspecially if there is a sentry and your a spy.

(quote)

Twine has some great ideas that should really be considered. The only thing that i can see as a problem is that if you are a sniper and you defend your team mates from a spy or something, your not awared for helping out a team mate, but almost punished for protecting a team mate instead of trying to cap intel.

Scarecrow has a good point on the punishments, exactly what I'm saying with not having any modifications that directly impact gameplay.

As far as punishing a spy for protecting a teammate, after all regular kills are modified to only give half a point, sniper kills on certain players could give a full point, i.e. kills on players who have damaged another player recently (in other words, points for team-useful kills). Engineers could also get the regular point value for kills.

Actually, points could be modified quite extensively based on class - i.e. give engineers and demomen more points for defense kills, pyros more points for killing spies, snipers less points for misc. kills, spies more points for backstabbing heavies, medics, engineers, demos, but less points for backstabbing snipers. Scouts more points for tapping/picking up the intel, same with spies.

Points are the best way to go in encouraging team-play.

Oh, and yes, people who want to do death match will do death match. You can't force them. You should let them. But you should also reflect its lack of usefulness by not rewarding as many points to those players.

I'm sure a teamplay server would attract new players - I've never seen something like that before. It's like how everyone goes to tf4 because of friendly fire and alltalk. We're a special interest group.

Oh, and maps. Maps can be tailored to only include team-based maps, like the official maps, mach4, the community maps, some others.

[Cervantes]

in my opinion points is a bad idea
punishing players for getting capped is an excellent one
fuck snipers

[MrBlip]

Punishing players for failing to meet objectives is likely to make them leave.

Rewarding players for meeting objectives is a good idea though. I like the + additional points idea and rewarding a team that cap'd something an extra health buff.

If it's a CP map and they cap a point, an entire team gets +25 health, +50 if they were actually on the point at the time of capture.

If it's a CTF map, give an entire team +30 health for capturing the flag, but the person who actually captures the flag gets +60? Maybe the person who picks the flag up can get +10 or +15 as well, at the time they picked it up. Gotta be careful though; people can pick the flag up and drop it, so you may need to be careful about someone spamming that to get extra health.

[Mad_Dugan]

no points for kills
only award points for healing, defending point/intel, capping point/intel

Only players that chose random team and then their team wins votes for next map

And we need the alltalk/teamtalk plug-in with alltalk default

[Vegetarian]

This is stupid, either mess with it when you're on and want to promote team goals and turn it off when you fucking leave.

[jermm]

I really think the whole tf2 score system needs to be reworked. You should get points for escorting intel carriers, get 2xs points of killing/assisting/healing near points/intel, get 1 pt for touching the intel, and get extra points of killing medics with über. Caps really should be worth more then 2 kills, 10 seems like a much better number.
A teamwide crit boost for capping seems like a great carrot for getting people to cap, maybe something valve can do in the next update?

[namelessmongineer]

On a custom map server class limits make sense because most maps are designed to ensure that snipers can't dominate. Custom maps are not perfect and no offense, they are a lot of fun and I applaud people who are able to make them, but they are not getting paid to make these maps. They have other things that take up their lives and can not make sure that each map does not give a class advantage. I do agree that the limit should be at least two or three on any class. I would say more for something like engineer that are not terrible in large numbers but can get annoying if everybody and their sick mother plays them, for the team going up against them (except the spies) and their own team if they have no offensive players or medics to help out achieve objectives. And about joe installing the plug in without telling anyone, it is his server even though he lets other people run it, admins don't have absolute power. Admin is a privilege.

[joe]

Punishing players for failing to meet objectives is likely to make them leave.

it made the counterstrike server very popular for years.

I heard of one person who had their score set to 1337 on j2, and if it was me, I'd be quite ticked about it.

yes it was me and it's annoying. i think the map did it somehow, i hope it wasn't an admin or i'd be pissed. it was on that map with the 2 cap points where if you hold A and B you automatically are holding C and you have to hold it for 4 minutes to win.
in most TF mods, the person who capped got 10 points, i hope that wouldn't upset you too much. all of my score records are in the 30+ range anyway so i doubt it would matter if i got +10 for capping. some maps would have to have this disabled (quickcap, jumpncap).

This problem will never be solved.

i don't see how you could possibly predict that before we've tried any of the dozens of suggestions in this thread.

Points are the best way to go in encouraging team-play.

points are icing on the cake but i strongly doubt point bonuses alone will change anyone's behavior

If it's a CP map and they cap a point, an entire team gets +25 health, +50 if they were actually on the point at the time of capture.

the health bonus also is icing on the cake but the respawn penalty is so low and it's so easy to get health (just touch a supply cabinet) that again it would be good in combination with other factors but alone the health bonus won't do much.

in the other TF mods, when you capped you were instantly 100% full hp and ammo refill which was nice because it meant you could head right back into the enemy base to cap again instead of taking a few seconds to resupply. not a big deal but it would have been nice if valve had implemented this. another missed opportunity.

also i'm sure any mod that gives a bonus to touching the intel would ignore multiple touches during the same cap and just give the bonus once to each player involved.

no points for kills
only award points for healing, defending point/intel, capping point/intel

that's a very good idea and would definitely help i think.

I really think the whole tf2 score system needs to be reworked. You should get points for escorting intel carriers, get 2xs points of killing/assisting/healing near points/intel, get 1 pt for touching the intel, and get extra points of killing medics with über. Caps really should be worth more then 2 kills, 10 seems like a much better number.
A teamwide crit boost for capping seems like a great carrot for getting people to cap, maybe something valve can do in the next update?

i agree with these ideas, lots of little bonuses for teamwork. again, points alone probably aren't enough but this is how the points should be implemented (and possibly the 0 points for non-helpful kills as mad dugan suggested)

And about joe installing the plug in without telling anyone, it is his server even though he lets other people run it, admins don't have absolute power. Admin is a privilege.

i've always felt that promoting team play and team goals was part of the "mission statement" of joe.to and doesn't require any special explanation to promote it. maybe some people who weren't here when we played CS are surprised by this but it was the whole point of all the j2 servers from the beginning, except for special cases like the jump map challenge server

[Avvatar]

I love how you make sweeping changes to the way the game is played then bitch about things that don't effect gameplay at all.

[joe]

wat

[Avvatar]

I heard of one person who had their score set to 1337 on j2, and if it was me, I'd be quite ticked about it.

yes it was me and it's annoying. i think the map did it somehow, i hope it wasn't an admin or i'd be pissed.

Granted, I don't mess with peoples scores or even know how I would if I wanted to, but thats a pretty meaningless thing to be "pissed" about. Much like when you complain about players being slapped post-round when it cannot possibly matter in the slightest.

And yet you feel free to REMOVE OPTIONS FROM PLAYERS, DIRECTLY AFFECTING THEIR ABILITY TO PLAY THE GAME.


In my eyes your stance is totally ludicrous.

[Johnny5072]

I agree with Avaatar on this one. Stop messing with the game. If you want a custom "Joe" server, that is customized for how Joe wants to play, go to #1 and make it that way.

Stop screwing with #3. You have four other servers to mess with yet you choose #3.

I don't think the name "Custom" was referring to how you would like the game played.

[Ninge]

Stop bashing the sniper class.

Just b/c most of you are bad at it doesn't mean you can bash it. Sniper = skill, as in you actually have to aim to kill some1, straight shot.

I'll admit to bashing other classes but not to the point where I want a damn limiter on it, and besides I joke around to much.

if there is a limiter on the sniper class, make it 3 or 4. Not some low as number to where I have to be forced to play something else. I play engineer a lot as well, and medic. I hate some classes a bit b/c of my computer any way (not getting into it). if there are limiters then it SHOULD be this way then.

Sniper: at least 3
Medic: at least 3
Spy: no more than 2
Engineer: no more than 4
Pyro 2-3
Heavy: no more than 2
Scout: no more then 3
Demo: no more than 3
Soldier: 3-4 (maybe)

If you want limits or something don't make it 1 class, b/c that's just BS