Trolls on TF4 Today

[Wolsk]

For the record, Lord Zedd and Torpor are friends.

Code: Select all

2011-07-08 18:49:19		 *DEAD* Torpor: NIGGGGGGGGAAAAAAAAAAAAS
2011-07-08 18:49:24		 Flutterwolsk.j2: tor stop
2011-07-08 18:50:26		 *DEAD* Torpor: Blackness
2011-07-08 18:52:30		 Torpor: No offensive slurs
2011-07-08 18:52:40		 Torpor: so one could not say cracker?
2011-07-08 18:53:04		 Torpor: Is Jiggaboo allowed?
2011-07-08 18:53:09		 Flutterwolsk.j2: tor shut up
2011-07-08 18:53:20		 *DEAD* Torpor: Its a question
2011-07-08 18:53:25		 (TEAM) Flutterwolsk.j2: @just ban tor because hes a troll and hes using slurs on purpose
2011-07-08 18:53:27		 Herr Dr. Face Doctor: Holy fucking shitfucks torpor, don't use that sort of goddamn language
2011-07-08 18:53:41		 Herr Dr. Face Doctor: This is a mature place for mature people
2011-07-08 18:53:43		 Torpor: Whoa calm down spook
2011-07-08 18:53:49		 Lord Zedd: what languge? like the "n" word speak?
2011-07-08 18:53:56		 (TEAM) Flutterwolsk.j2: @BAN TORPOR ALREADY DAMN.
2011-07-08 18:54:00		 (TEAM) Flutterwolsk.j2: @and lord zedd
                             (Lord Zedd was banned here.)
2011-07-08 18:54:02		 Torpor: Hey he said the "n" word
2011-07-08 18:54:35		 *DEAD* Herr Dr. Face Doctor: Doesn't even matter what connotation or context you use it in, no racism
                             (I believe Torpor was kicked here.)
2011-07-08 18:54:55		 *DEAD* Torpor: Blackness
2011-07-08 18:55:37		 Torpor: NIGGGAAA NOOOOOOOOOOO
2011-07-08 18:55:45		 *DEAD* The man who phucked your mom: You the "n" word
2011-07-08 18:55:47		 *DEAD* (TEAM) Flutterwolsk.j2: @BAN TOR ALREADY FOR FUCKING SHITS SAKE
2011-07-08 18:55:54		 jdntx: jeex with the racial shit
2011-07-08 18:55:55		 (TEAM) Flutterwolsk.j2: @WHY WONT YOU BAN HIM
                             (Torpor was kicked.)
2011-07-08 18:56:01		 Flutterwolsk.j2: a kick
2011-07-08 18:56:02		 Flutterwolsk.j2: really
2011-07-08 18:56:05		 *DEAD* [X-Fall]Scooby.j2: YES
2011-07-08 18:56:06		 Flutterwolsk.j2: are you fucking stupid?
                             (I was kicked by Scooby.)

I cut out a lot of text from this, and if you need me to post that, too, I will.
Sure, I may have overreacted, but Scooby screws up way too much, and I'm sick of it.
Can some intelligent admins do something about Scooby doing nothing about trolls EVER?
This is not the first time that he's done nothing about trolls because h feels he can "fix them."
And although I couldn't read the admin chat, I'm sure others wanted to do something, but Scooby wouldn't let them.

Discuss.

[Neelpos]

Right, Scooby wouldn't let us do anything, that's why I banned Zedd the moment he said "the "n" word speak".
The kicking of TorPor was a little unexpected, I initiated a ban command on him moments after he was kicked, but from what I saw he didn't return, and if he does he'll have a watch on him so any funny business from him would be an instant ban.
Always make the rules clear, even to trolls, not all trolls will continue if an admin bluntly states they will be removed if they keep pushing it, these two however were not those types of trolls, that's why they're gone, and also why you should just let us handle this rather than spamming admin chat with demands to ban people.

[scobywhru]

rofl not the admin that took care of the troll and you ALWAYS kick before you ban as a warning that is the rules of being an admin that even the SR Staff have to abide, there are very few exceptions to this. Secondly you were arguing on the chat where it doesn't belong you always bring it to the forums so it can be dealt with. Arguing with or otherwise harassing admins while they are dealing with an issue will not get the the issue resolved any faster ask if they have it under control let them deal with it. I also always use ! to do my commands so everyone can see who has done it.

There were other admins handling it we don't need to ban everyone as that sets a bad precedent. If we kick them and they never come back they also don't want to harass us on the forums etc a ban can be seen as an insult a kick as a slap on the wrist.

[jermm]

@message in teamchat to annoy the admins!

[Wolsk]

rofl not the admin that took care of the troll and you ALWAYS kick before you ban as a warning that is the rules of being an admin that even the SR Staff have to abide, there are very few exceptions to this. Secondly you were arguing on the chat where it doesn't belong you always bring it to the forums so it can be dealt with. Arguing with or otherwise harassing admins while they are dealing with an issue will not get the the issue resolved any faster ask if they have it under control let them deal with it. I also always use ! to do my commands so everyone can see who has done it.

There were other admins handling it we don't need to ban everyone as that sets a bad precedent. If we kick them and they never come back they also don't want to harass us on the forums etc a ban can be seen as an insult a kick as a slap on the wrist.

But if people constantly tell them to stop, and they keep going, they are obviously trolls.
They ususally don't act any differently when they come back after being kicked.
I know this from personal experience because of all the trolls I've seen on TF4.

Even if you feel that they will change when they come back, kick them sooner.
You always feel the need to wait for them to say "n*****" about 5 times before kicking.

[scobywhru]

Sorry not gonna be a nazi, I've operated many many many servers over the years and being overly aggressive is bad for the server players and community. TF2 Accounts are free if we are overly aggressive we become a target to griefers/trolls which are nothing new if they are dealt with they usually don't come back if they are challenged they try to circumvent and challenge again. These are new players and may decide to rescind their evil ways and if they do they are welcome to play. Either the atmosphere, the comradory, the interesting gameplay, or interesting players may win them over and will give them the opportunity to decide then ban if necessary.

[Wolsk]

All of that is true, but you should still explain the rules and kick them quickly if they are intentionally trolling.
I've never seen a troll change within a map, and it often takes weeks for them to stop trolling.
I'm all for expanding the community by getting new players, but some people just don't change.

[joe]

three different issues here:

1) how were the two racist trolls handled?
kicking or banning were both ok in my opinion. kicking was probably better but they were clearly trying to fuck with the admins (which almost always indicates a griefer) so if someone decided to just ban instead i would have been fine with it
this was a one-time decision/event and i don't think we have to change any policies about it

2) one admin (scooby) kicking another admin (wolsk)
this is more complicated. on the one hand, at the time wolsk was freaking out a bit on admin chat and it was distracting and annoying. it's just racism trolling, the problem will get solved, no need to flip out. on the other hand kicking someone for complaining about trolling is a bit over the top for the admin. at the time i was actually relieved he was kicked but 30 seconds later i felt like a mistake was made

3) an assertion of a pattern of poor behavior by an admin to wit wolsk accuses scooby of "screwing up way too much" and "doing nothing about trolls ever"
i would need to see some evidence of this before i start talking about it.

personally from what i saw today, i don't know who did the kicking or the banning, but the point is that 2 people came and trolled and within a minute they were both gone. so the system worked. i don't think wolsk should have been kicked but as i rarely (almost never) play tf2, other than being referee here i don't think i have much say on this incident

[Wolsk]

3) an assertion of a pattern of poor behavior by an admin to wit wolsk accuses scooby of "screwing up way too much" and "doing nothing about trolls ever"

Yeah, that was an exaggeration.
I was just pretty pissed off...

[Adam]

2) one admin (scooby) kicking another admin (wolsk)
this is more complicated. on the one hand, at the time wolsk was freaking out a bit on admin chat and it was distracting and annoying. it's just racism trolling, the problem will get solved, no need to flip out. on the other hand kicking someone for complaining about trolling is a bit over the top for the admin. at the time i was actually relieved he was kicked but 30 seconds later i felt like a mistake was made

Wolsky isn't an admin, he was using just using the message to admin feature and maybe being a little a worked up about it, but I agree he shouldn't have been kicked.

[Killtman]

D: RACISM TROLLING

[MrBlip]

Once again Scooby proves he is a terrible admin.

in b4 give other cases even though this is probably the 5th or 6th time I've said this after Scooby did/said something incredibly stupid

[Neelpos]

Personally I think Wolsk getting kicked might have been good for him, surely he can admit he was getting incredibly worked up over the situation.

[scobywhru]

2) one admin (scooby) kicking another admin (wolsk)
this is more complicated. on the one hand, at the time wolsk was freaking out a bit on admin chat and it was distracting and annoying. it's just racism trolling, the problem will get solved, no need to flip out. on the other hand kicking someone for complaining about trolling is a bit over the top for the admin. at the time i was actually relieved he was kicked but 30 seconds later i felt like a mistake was made

as stated he is not an admin though he was trialed at one point. Arguing in chat is not the place for it he has read the admin guidlines and been in the community a long while ignorance of such a rule is not forgivable to which end he took his complaint to the forum instead of ruining the game for more players after he was kicked.

[joe]

anyway short of anyone posting details about patterns of misbehavior (mrblip, balls in your court) sounds like this was a one-time thing and it's all settled now