joe.to forums

Seriously.

never stop dreaming, for me.

We still have that?

I've never played heavy so I wouldn't know

Don't change what isn't broken.

Then why was it changed in the first place?

Zing!

In retrospect I don't really care what we do with it anymore.

I've never known a TF4 where there wasn't double overheal. Aside from that time we tried it without and it wasn't the same.

This again? And Mastermind leading the charge; it's good to see that some things in J2 will never change.

I'm not sure why this time would be any different from the other dozen times we've discussed this to death, but rather than typing out a response, I'll just paste a few of my responses from prior threads...

Parasyte wrote:

Mastermind1011 wrote:My problem can be summed up that the doubly overhealed heavy unfairly dominates when faced with only one or two players.

I won't dispute that, but those encountering a doubly overhealed heavy have every opportunity to be doubly overhealed themselves. We've been through this discussion many times as well from the spawn-camping angle; both teams have the ability to counter each-other fairly if they would just choose classes strategically. Yes, many medics slack-off when it comes to charging their whole team and I agree completely that a fully overhealed heavy can dominate one or two players. That being said, I don't expect that reducing the overheal from 200% to 150% is going to stop me (or many other heavies) from dominating one or two players who are separated from their team. When the teams are near full, I will typically avoid my team altogether and go rogue to try and flank because there are so many players focusing fire on my team. That's why I generally avoid the cart on payload maps; If I stay with the group I will die quickly because of the number of people shooting at it.

The issue is a matter of scale, as it has been mentioned already. It sounds like a few of us are in agreement that an overheal based on server pop would likely resolve many of the balance issues. And I'd rather try THAT for a week or two instead of removing the extra 50% outright.

Parasyte wrote:Some points for consideration...

1. I've said it before: I would be fine with setting the overheal to default. Either way works for me; I know how to adjust my gameplay to compensate for lower max health, but remember that...
2. ...everyone else will have lower max health, too, and will be less of a potential threat for heavies.
3. The overheal isn't double the default level, but people often speak like it is. People get confused when talking about "double overheal"; it sounds like TF4 has double the normal amount of overheal (150% + 150%). We have 200% overheal, which is only 50% above the default overheal, not twice as much. And that overheal does help to re-balance gameplay a bit because...
4. ...we are a 32 player server with friendly fire on; there is a lot of shit to potentially hurt players. The extra overheal helps offset that. With a full server, it's fairly common to see multiple spies/snipers on each team, so...
5. ...while 1 fully charged headshot will not take a fully overhealed heavy down, a second, un-charged headshot from the other sniper will.
6. Having default overheal when ≤24 players and 200% with 25+ players would be dandy. It would allow more flexibility in class selection when there are fewer players on; full overheal with low pop and it's easy for a medic/heavy combo to steamroll.
7. Speaking of which, I was just trying to stress this to people the other night...

   Helpful wrote:but seriously, kill the medic
   
   

Ian7 wrote:I've never known a TF4 where there wasn't double overheal. Aside from that time we tried it without and it wasn't the same.

Was referring to the fact that it was changed from the base game, not tf4 specifically.

we should go back to 5x

http://forums.joe.to/viewtopic.php?f=185&t=44625

I can't help but feel some personal bias from Parasyte's side as he does namely play as heavy on the server and is typically the one with 3-4 medics on him at all times steamrolling the other team.

There is rarely too much of an issue with friendly-fire nowadays on the server (excluding the typical new guy who bombards his whole team in spawn during setup) and the 50% overheal is barely enough to prevent a truly accidental case of friendly-fire considering how fast it wears off and the tendency of medics to pocket players. I also notice that in a typical 16 v 16 format, there are rarely enough people who play medic to have their team to be constantly buffed with heals to the point where it would actually prevent a case of severe friendly-fire.

Honestly, this wouldn't be such an issue if people didn't abuse this utility to stack teams, play medic and solely pocket the 'top scorer' on their team for the scoreboard rank. And this isn't just mine or Mastermind's opinion, the consensus is pretty widespread on the server at times and it shows from the scoreboard.


In short, the overheal provides a minimal to nonexistent buffer for most cases of friendly-fire (which actually occurs not that often as you may think on tf4 anymore) and has shown multiple cases where several medics on a single player is just straight-up unbalanced and contributes to a pretty poor team composition and coordination. I would definitely want to see an overheal mod based on server population, as Parasyte has mentioned, be implemented on tf4 for a couple of weeks or at least a method of scrambling the teams (rip sausage) by the players or the admins, themselves.

lol this again?, It's not hard to kill the medic

Being one of the best medics on the server; I can vouch for how often you as a medic get primaried(more like the lack of). Maybe it's because the skill level has died pretty much 75% of what it was 3 years ago that's bringing this up.

BTW it's not @ 200%, I think it already got brought down to 150% due to last thread. 200% brought your heavy past the max heal the GUI could display and back into the low reds, unless they patched the GUI showing 200% overheal. (which would make no sense since no real official support from valve for this mechanic being used, just like no official support for ff(i'm looking at you spycheckers with weapons)

Don't quote me on the 150% till i look at the configs later but pretty sure that's what it's at.

Why dont we just get rid of rooftime instead?

loafozard wrote:Why dont we just get rid of rooftime instead?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This

I honestly thought this was a joke. If this goes in the direction I think it's going in, I'm just going to back away slowly